Cars with bad reps, fair & justified or unfair myths

[brachunky]

I recently came across another story/post about how terrible the Vauxhall Frontera was and this got me thinking as to how unfair this actually was. The car was produced all over the world between 1989 and 2004 being branded as either Chevrolet, Isuzu, Vauxhall,Opel or Holden. Just like Grizz and a few others on RR, I spent decades living in South Africa where the Isuzu pick ups were highly regarded and for years regularly swopped places with the Hilux as the biggest selling pick up over there. It was highly favoured by farmers and small businesses with all using the tough Isuzu engines and in particular the 2.8TD
Over here in blighty, it was deemed as unreliable and rather unloved. Was this perhaps down to the same shoddy British workmanship we all know existed alongside loads of other locally built cars? Did we locally ruin this model due to awful factory management at the time and did our choice of engines play a part?

Did a load of greenlaning in this old girl

[Midland Performance & Retro]

The Frontera was pretty terrible in terms of issues and warranty claims, but today they're long out of production and any such issues are long gone, so now they're just an old vehicle that works well enough if properly maintained and any problems they suffer with will just be considered par for the course for such a vehicle.

A bit like the K-Series engine. A fundamentally excellent engine, with one major flaw which caused virtually guaranteed headgasket failure. Almost all of the survivors will have been sorted now, and if the best quality parts were used, then it shouldn't be an issue any more.

[Mercdan68]

As above the k series engines cars if looked after are fantastic
I’ve had three mgf and not had one problem
And all i ever heard was “the head gasket will go”
Not in my experience and only one of my cars had the multi layer gasket fitted
Nearly every car built has a common fault
The only one I’d say was built with the worst fault of all was the RO80
But what a beautiful looking car
and the Wankel engine did go on to have a better future in the Mazda rx7

[kevins]

The stag is another one which falls like the RO80, potentially a great car spoilt by a underdeveloped engine, the TR7 is also similar, in may respects it was way ahead of the MGB etc but they then put a load of marina bits and a rough unreliable engine in it, after 2 years they eventually fitted the parts they should have in the first place but by then the reputation was destroyed.

[rattlecan]

Clearly I’m a little bias, however, I’ve owned many cars & no other car has even come close to the number of urban myths, falsehood’s & just general ignorance than these. Even total bs about where, who, when etc etc. mental
Edit, oh & when you go to a show guys come up to you & say, ‘ my mates got one’ you say ‘ yeh, what’s his name?’
Err, ooh err not sure he might not still have it, I only really know him through someone else etc etc.
It’s dead weird, they are clearly making it up & then backtrack. Never understood it & don’t get it but it happens loads

[stealthstylz]

It's all down to the age of the vehicle. The majority of cars have a pretty high chance of been a turd, but by the time they get to retro status most of the bad ones are long gone.

I've test driven a Delorean that was at work. It was pretty terrible, but I wasn't expecting much and it's still and probably always will be one of the coolest cars I've ever driven. Shame that people seem to ruin them with Back to the Future curse word.

[ironmighty07]

Probably the zenith of bad reputation is a brand, more than a model and that's Land Rover... seen some shocking build quality personally but equally there are some very dubious pattern parts contributing to that reputation. I suspect its more about the amazing strength in the face of abuse the equivalent Toyota has compounded the dodgy reputation...

[brachunky]

Crazy thing about a Landy is ones "acceptance" that the things need constant attention and aftermarket parts are on the whole,pants! But we still love them............

[rattlecan]

Apr 22, 2022 17:55:28 GMT stealthstylz said:

It's all down to the age of the vehicle. The majority of cars have a pretty high chance of been a turd, but by the time they get to retro status most of the bad ones are long gone.

I've test driven a Delorean that was at work. It was pretty terrible, but I wasn't expecting much and it's still and probably always will be one of the coolest cars I've ever driven. Shame that people seem to ruin them with Back to the Future curse word.

Agreed, a test drive wouldn’t cut it. After owning one a while you just get used to it’s ‘idiosyncrasies’ & kind of ‘get used to them’. I also own a mk2 RS2000, probably one of the most idolised (how ever you want to term it) cars around. Not even in the same league as driving the Delorean. Absolutely horrible post 70 mph, noisy, harsh etc etc. I drove 2000 miles in that Delorean through France over a week, about 500 of that it one day on the auto route, 70 to 80mph all day pretty much. One of the most memorable drives ever & got out fresh as

[Dez]

Pretty much anything ever said about ladas was a British motor industry slur programme to try to prevent people buying them. They actually trained sales staff on how to slag them off most effectively!

Lada still sold tons of them though and they stayed in production and available on the uk market for longer than the majority of the British motor industry lasted, so I guess lada got the last laugh there.

[nickwheeler]

My aunt had 2 new Rivas.

Two things still stand out: the mess one of them made of the back of mum's Avenger, and the worlds most uncomfortable seats. They were even worse than Mercedes

[akku]

Most cars with a bad rep have it because it got exagerated or spun or picked up on by Top Gear or some such sillyness.

For everyone who tells you X car was the worst thing ever made there is someone who owned one and loved it.

And visa versa. My dad had a "brick" Volvo brand new back in the 70s and it was the most unreliable car he ever had. He was evidently an outlier in the dataset of "reliable Volvos"

But yeah, people talk curse word about cars, usually because they know curse word about cars.

[igor]

I once had the misfortune to drive several hundred miles at night in an Isuzu Bighorn. It might not have felt like such a horrible car if the owner (who was asleep in the back seat) hadn't fitted stupidly huge mud tyres all around thereby ruining all the gear ratios and causing the automatic transmission to change gear seemingly at random.

[braaap]

Apr 22, 2022 21:05:57 GMT Dez said:

Lada still sold tons of them though and they stayed in production and available on the uk market for longer than the majority of the British motor industry lasted, so I guess lada got the last laugh there.

21 millions plus of VW beetles were produced. Could that have happened, if the car was that curse word, some people consider it to be?

You can blame any car for any reason, and if enough people do so, then enough other people will be ready to believe (and share) it without any own experience.

It's like a chicken egg. Perfect for what nature (and not man!)  made it for, but some people will blame it for not being robust enough to be thrown out of the second floor's window.

[ChasR]

Apr 22, 2022 15:03:22 GMT kevins said:

The stag is another one which falls like the RO80, potentially a great car spoilt by a underdeveloped engine, the TR7 is also similar, in may respects it was way ahead of the MGB etc but they then put a load of marina bits and a rough unreliable engine in it, after 2 years they eventually fitted the parts they should have in the first place but by then the reputation was destroyed.

To be fair, both engines weren't too bad as time as proven. They had their quirks, yes, which cost them their reputation early on, but they were not terrible.

The V8 started out as a 2.5 all the way back in the early 60s, but then became a 3.0 when it was found the 2.5 didn't make the torque folks wanted, and that the fuel injection setup wasn't going to make it to the main car.

A few things didn't help either the TR7, Dolly or the Stag (both of which shared alot between the engines, albeit not as much as you think) :

-High mounted water pump -

-Wrong coolants or no coolant used. I.e just water. Not great on a mixed metal engine

-Oil changes and poor quality oils available at the time.

-Changing the radiator to a smaller one in later production.

My Stag over the 4 years I owned it actually was fine on the engine front. Everything else around it mind you, that could not be said about.

It's not like the Rover V8 was no stranger to Head Gasket issues or more.

That said, both engines issues are paled into insignificance in comparison to what the legacy would spawn later on ; the Ford/Jag Diesel V6, or as I like to call it, the crank-snapping edition.

[ChasR]

Apr 22, 2022 16:18:21 GMT rattlecan said:

Clearly I’m a little bias, however, I’ve owned many cars & no other car has even come close to the number of urban myths, falsehood’s & just general ignorance than these. Even total bs about where, who, when etc etc. mental
Edit, oh & when you go to a show guys come up to you & say, ‘ my mates got one’ you say ‘ yeh, what’s his name?’
Err, ooh err not sure he might not still have it, I only really know him through someone else etc etc.
It’s dead weird, they are clearly making it up & then backtrack. Never understood it & don’t get it but it happens loads

A bit of sad trivia.

The plant that made these has been repurposed into a castings plant, now called Linamar. It now provides cylinder heads to a couple of brands which exist in Europe and the UK .

[duggers]

Porsche IMS bearing issues. It did affect just under 5% of cars world wide, usually garage queens that weren't ever driven like they should be. If you listen to the tinterwebs the moment you fire up an M96 engine it is guaranteed to grenade.

[rattlecan]

Apr 23, 2022 6:30:09 GMT ChasR said:

Apr 22, 2022 16:18:21 GMT rattlecan said:

Clearly I’m a little bias, however, I’ve owned many cars & no other car has even come close to the number of urban myths, falsehood’s & just general ignorance than these. Even total bs about where, who, when etc etc. mental
Edit, oh & when you go to a show guys come up to you & say, ‘ my mates got one’ you say ‘ yeh, what’s his name?’
Err, ooh err not sure he might not still have it, I only really know him through someone else etc etc.
It’s dead weird, they are clearly making it up & then backtrack. Never understood it & don’t get it but it happens loads

A bit of sad trivia.

The plant that made these has been repurposed into a castings plant, now called Linamar. It now provides cylinder heads to a couple of brands which exist in Europe and the UK .

Yep used to be Monupet. Also made alloy wheels for a while. Been around it actually with my Delorean & quite a few things are still visible from when it was the car plant. Brackets where the Dyno was bolted in & various other stuff

[kevins]

Apr 23, 2022 6:24:35 GMT ChasR said:

Apr 22, 2022 15:03:22 GMT kevins said:

The stag is another one which falls like the RO80, potentially a great car spoilt by a underdeveloped engine, the TR7 is also similar, in may respects it was way ahead of the MGB etc but they then put a load of marina bits and a rough unreliable engine in it, after 2 years they eventually fitted the parts they should have in the first place but by then the reputation was destroyed.

To be fair, both engines weren't too bad as time as proven. They had their quirks, yes, which cost them their reputation early on, but they were not terrible.

The V8 started out as a 2.5 all the way back in the early 60s, but then became a 3.0 when it was found the 2.5 didn't make the torque folks wanted, and that the fuel injection setup wasn't going to make it to the main car.

A few things didn't help either the TR7, Dolly or the Stag (both of which shared alot between the engines, albeit not as much as you think) :

-High mounted water pump -

-Wrong coolants or no coolant used. I.e just water. Not great on a mixed metal engine

-Oil changes and poor quality oils available at the time.

-Changing the radiator to a smaller one in later production.

My Stag over the 4 years I owned it actually was fine on the engine front. Everything else around it mind you, that could not be said about.

It's not like the Rover V8 was no stranger to Head Gasket issues or more.

That said, both engines issues are paled into insignificance in comparison to what the legacy would spawn later on ; the Ford/Jag Diesel V6, or as I like to call it, the crank-snapping edition.

The thing about the TR7 lump was when the head gasket went the stupid slanted head studs often made it almost impossible to repair the thing (and it weighed a ton), I got through 3 of them with various faults in 50,000 miles, the RV8 which replaced them is still going strong after 15 years.

As you say there are still plenty of modern engines with major faults, often from brands with a supposed good reputation (VW spring to mind)

[gtviva]

Cant remember was it the Escort MK4 or Mk5 that dissolved quicker than a spoonful of sugar in a cup of tea?

As for the Frontera it didnt help that they used 4 different petrol engines and 3 different diesel engines in the A series over its 6 year production run but they were Ok motors for the price

Vectra B series, how can you design such a hatefull car after getting the Cavalier MK3s just right