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Oct 26, 2022 21:53:15 GMT
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I bought myself a Clarke welder which was miles better than my friend's old SIP I had on permanent loan - it showed I can actually produce something resembling a half-decent weld. Of course, at the moment I only have one of the tiny little bottles that you get with the welder, not a "proper" big gas bottle. I am considering getting one of these but I know absolutely NOTHING about setting this up, other than I need to get a regulator and the bottle needs to be held securely so it can't fall over.
Can somebody with experience please tell me what I need, what I don't need, what does what, and how much it's all likely to cost please? Ideally this needs to be explained in crayon as I am a bit of a novice. I am perfectly happy to get my hands dirty and try stuff - I would just like to know the basics.
Thanks!
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,883
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Oct 26, 2022 22:01:47 GMT
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Get a hobby weld bottle hobbyweld.co.uk/home/cylinder-sizes/or adams gas www.adamsgas.co.uk/product-category/hobby-welding-gas/You want an Argon CO2 mix - you can use CO2 only but the arc is less stable at lower amps and you get a lot more splatter unless you are using a lot of gas (BOC for "Volkszone hobby deal if you do - if they still do it) You need a suitable regulator (£30 ish) and I'd probably suggest an in line flow meter (£10 ish) so you don't waste a lot of gas with excessive flow to the torch head Machine mart do a cheap welding trolley (£50 ish) that incorporates a bottle stand (chain) |
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tonup
Part of things
Posts: 39 
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Oct 26, 2022 22:12:29 GMT
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Oct 26, 2022 22:43:58 GMT
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I played around with co2 (cheap) vs Argon/co2 mix (expensive) when I first got my Unimig 210 and for automotive stuff on a single phase welder, found that it was worth paying the extra cost to run the Argon mix.
It just welded nicer on the 0.8-4mm steel you get on cars. Seemed to flow nicer and lay neater bead at the lower current.
And the co2 spatters like hell as above.
At the time I was using a 3 phase mig at work running straight co2 and it worked really well, but was all much heavier industrial work with long heavy runs and the spatter wasn't an issue.
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1964 Daimler 2.5 V8 (project)
2015 Disco 4 SDV6
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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First thing I'd do is see which supplier is local. I use SGS which you get through motor factors such as motor parts direct. They are cheap no frills but its probably best to go through whoever is closest as it's a pain in the  to have to drive distance to get a refill. I belive some do deliver (Adam's gas maybe) but it comes at a cost. Ive also used Hobbyweld in the passed but find they are more expensive. Cost depends what sized bottle you want. Bigger bottles mean cheaper gas but the deposit is higher. Personally I have the biggest they do. But if space and money is tight you might want smaller. You can always upgrade next time. If you're used to disposable bottles even a 10L bottle will seem to last a lifetime tho. Some bottles come with integral regulators. Avoid if I were you. The deposit is much higher and you run the risk of the reg going wrong and wasting a bottle full of gas. Regulators are very cheap on ebay etc. Make sure you keep all receipts and paperwork you get as you will need them when you come to trade the bottle back in. Only problem I have had is trying to trade a bottle back in after moving to the other side of the country. Ended up having to go back to the original supplier which was a bit annoying. As for which gas, you want argon mixed with 5% CO2 for MIG welding |
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Get a hobby weld bottle hobbyweld.co.uk/home/cylinder-sizes/or adams gas www.adamsgas.co.uk/product-category/hobby-welding-gas/You want an Argon CO2 mix - you can use CO2 only but the arc is less stable at lower amps and you get a lot more splatter unless you are using a lot of gas (BOC for "Volkszone hobby deal if you do - if they still do it) You need a suitable regulator (£30 ish) and I'd probably suggest an in line flow meter (£10 ish) so you don't waste a lot of gas with excessive flow to the torch head Machine mart do a cheap welding trolley (£50 ish) that incorporates a bottle stand (chain) Thank you - this is really useful information. I have a Hobbyweld Supplier a couple of miles or so up the road so will go and have a chat with them - hopefully they will also have all the necessary attachments for a regulator that will work with my machine - don't really want to order one over the internet and then find I need all sorts of adapters. I must have pre-empted you and bought the welding trolley last week. It's not £50 anymore though... £83!  Thank you everyone for your sage advice - this is SUCH an awesome forum. |
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-(
2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap
V8 Humber Hawk
1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD
1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Oct 27, 2022 10:11:44 GMT
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Machine mart do a cheap welding trolley (£50 ish) that incorporates a bottle stand (chain) They do. Unless you already have a stack of metal to make one, buying it is a no-brainer. But don't expect the casters to last long once you've stacked a welder, gas cylinder and supplies on the other two shelves. |
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Oct 27, 2022 18:28:51 GMT
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BOC do still do the Volkszone deal, but you have to ask for it. Gas is top quality and relatively cheap to buy but you have to have the Y size bottle which long term is expensive to rent.
Fine if you can get a couple of 'paid' welding jobs to cover it each year though.
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,883
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Oct 27, 2022 20:30:49 GMT
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That was one of the drivers for me to use BOC with the volkszone offer (which I am still amazed that they do) - it was great that the local depot (opposite my workplace) had good stocks of consumables and often had useful offers on grinders etc however the local depot has now closed to public and shut up the shop and I have to order exchange bottles to be delivered when my current Y bottle is finished I'm going to adams gas as it works out cheaper for me. |
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,883
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Oct 27, 2022 20:35:21 GMT
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Machine mart do a cheap welding trolley (£50 ish) that incorporates a bottle stand (chain) They do. Unless you already have a stack of metal to make one, buying it is a no-brainer. But don't expect the casters to last long once you've stacked a welder, gas cylinder and supplies on the other two shelves. I have welder, plasma cutter, a steel box of consumables plus two bottles of pub gas on mine - it's been fine for many years (prob 8-10?) I will make one as a winter project just because I have a bit of spare box section and I want to tailor the trolley to the equipment and to be honest I'd say making one is always a good place to start if you are learning to weld |
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,883
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Oct 27, 2022 20:37:43 GMT
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Get a hobby weld bottle hobbyweld.co.uk/home/cylinder-sizes/or adams gas www.adamsgas.co.uk/product-category/hobby-welding-gas/You want an Argon CO2 mix - you can use CO2 only but the arc is less stable at lower amps and you get a lot more splatter unless you are using a lot of gas (BOC for "Volkszone hobby deal if you do - if they still do it) You need a suitable regulator (£30 ish) and I'd probably suggest an in line flow meter (£10 ish) so you don't waste a lot of gas with excessive flow to the torch head Machine mart do a cheap welding trolley (£50 ish) that incorporates a bottle stand (chain) Thank you - this is really useful information. I have a Hobbyweld Supplier a couple of miles or so up the road so will go and have a chat with them - hopefully they will also have all the necessary attachments for a regulator that will work with my machine - don't really want to order one over the internet and then find I need all sorts of adapters. No problem at all I must have pre-empted you and bought the welding trolley last week. It's not £50 anymore though... £83! Thank you everyone for your sage advice - this is SUCH an awesome forum. Ouch the trolleys have gone up a bit I agree it is a good forum but so is the mig welding forum if you want specific advice on equipment or technique |
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Oct 27, 2022 22:19:47 GMT
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I've just switched from BOC to Adam's Gas for 5% CO2. Partially due to a house move so now I'm 20 minutes from Adams Gas themselves and a lot further from a BOC depot, but there's other considerations too.
BOC charge a yearly bottle rental for a Y that's something like £150. The gas itself is cheaper and great quality, but I think I probably spent twice as much on the bottle rental as I did on the gas. When I was doing the weldathon on the Spitfire it was useful having the cheaper gas, but since I got onto more mechanical stuff it's been quite expensive even though I'm not using anything.
Adams Gas charge a one-off rental for their hobby bottles. They're smaller, so the unit price for the gas is more expensive, but as I plan to have them for ages I'd bet it works out cheaper in the long run. It'd be different if I was welding for a living, or doing mainly TIG as that chews through gas, but I'm not.
The other consideration is from Adams Gas themselves they only let the 10l hobby bottles go out without a yearly exchange for safety (regardless of whether you've used the gas or not). A mate of mine is with one of their subcontractors and they're not fussed so he's got a massive great argon bottle, but I'm stuck with the little 10l ones. Easier for me to store, and I've got two so I can switch over if I run out midway through a job so I don't mind the compromises.
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Last Edit: Oct 27, 2022 22:21:41 GMT by biturbo228
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,883
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Oct 27, 2022 23:13:17 GMT
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I've just switched from BOC to Adam's Gas for 5% CO2. Partially due to a house move so now I'm 20 minutes from Adams Gas themselves and a lot further from a BOC depot, but there's other considerations too. BOC charge a yearly bottle rental for a Y that's something like £150. The gas itself is cheaper and great quality, but I think I probably spent twice as much on the bottle rental as I did on the gas. When I was doing the weldathon on the Spitfire it was useful having the cheaper gas, but since I got onto more mechanical stuff it's been quite expensive even though I'm not using anything. Think I pay BOC £55 a year for a under the Volkszone scheme |
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Oct 27, 2022 23:19:18 GMT
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They do. Unless you already have a stack of metal to make one, buying it is a no-brainer. But don't expect the casters to last long once you've stacked a welder, gas cylinder and supplies on the other two shelves. I have welder, plasma cutter, a steel box of consumables plus two bottles of pub gas on mine - it's been fine for many years (prob 8-10?) I will make one as a winter project just because I have a bit of spare box section and I want to tailor the trolley to the equipment and to be honest I'd say making one is always a good place to start if you are learning to weld I agree with you about making a trolley as an early project for a novice welder. But if were to replace my Supermig220 with a smaller inverter machine, I'd be buying the trolley and a pair of higher quality casters. My current trolley holds a Tig, gas cylinder, box of welding clamps, grinder and sundries. The casters didn't last a year, and the whole lot rarely moves out of the space next to the freezer |
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Think I pay BOC £55 a year for a under the Volkszone scheme Well I could have saved myself a bucketload of money! |
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I've just switched from BOC to Adam's Gas for 5% CO2. Partially due to a house move so now I'm 20 minutes from Adams Gas themselves and a lot further from a BOC depot, but there's other considerations too. BOC charge a yearly bottle rental for a Y that's something like £150. The gas itself is cheaper and great quality, but I think I probably spent twice as much on the bottle rental as I did on the gas. When I was doing the weldathon on the Spitfire it was useful having the cheaper gas, but since I got onto more mechanical stuff it's been quite expensive even though I'm not using anything. Think I pay BOC £55 a year for a under the Volkszone scheme I have Argon, Argoshield light and oxy-acetylene on the hobby gas scheme. Costs me about £220 a year. I consider it worth it for the convenience alone. |
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-(
2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap
V8 Humber Hawk
1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD
1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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I'm relly surprised any hobbyist can make the BOC rental system work economically. Think if I had all my bottles off them I'd have a £500 a year bill to pay before I'd actually bought any gas! We found even the acetylene was uneconomical from them nowerdays. Barcoded bottles killed thier viability.
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,883
Club RR Member Number: 71
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I'm relly surprised any hobbyist can make the BOC rental system work economically. Think if I had all my bottles off them I'd have a £500 a year bill to pay before I'd actually bought any gas! We found even the acetylene was uneconomical from them nowerdays. Barcoded bottles killed thier viability. It did indeed but if you only have one bottle it’s not an issue |
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