Stratos Evoluzione, Carbon Kevlar body, T45 spaceframe build

[sean999r]

I like many people have wanted to build a Stratos (recreation) for couple decades, a couple times in the past I got the catalog order info, could have taken the plunge but didn’t as their was always something that I wanted different from what was on offer
Now there’s waiting list to get a chance to be next in line to put a deposit down on a order that could be 2+ years away !! then another couple to complete the kit, such is the demand for the limited supply

So here I go, I’m going it alone, freestyle, no kit no compromises ( well a few )

I’ve ordered a Carbon Kevlar body from Xsport Racing, many will be aware of John Cross Retro
Rallycross racer that is modified Litton Corse I
with Turbo VR6 VW power
So his body is reworked from the lineage

So a few weeks back I started building my chassis jig in preparation
Bought a junk X1/9 to rob some key parts, last week I picked up a 97 Alfa 156 for its 2.5 24v V6 engine and trans unit
I have to go V6, because it’s just right, and not much sounds better than a raspy V6, however I hope to destroke with a hard to find 2.0 V6 60mm crank and use custom JE 98mm pistons, that’s about 2.7 lt with same short stoke of the Dino, anyway that’s for latter





Jig waiting to be anchored to floor then topped with steel plate



No fancy CAD, lovely old school, scale drawings for reference

[zeberdee]

Looking forward to seeing this !!

👍

[daver555]

Awesome but I do hope there is plenty of CAD as in cardboard aided design

[molebert]

Well, if you need any inspiration, you won't do better than this! :-)

retrorides.proboards.com/thread/185484/1993-litton-corse-stratos-replica

[sean999r]

Nov 2, 2022 8:19:27 GMT molebert said:

Well, if you need any inspiration, you won't do better than this! :-)

retrorides.proboards.com/thread/185484/1993-litton-corse-stratos-replica

Yes definitely helpful, I read the whole rebuild last weekend
Made me think 44 IDF’s Goes to my fundamental ethos KISS and 3 F’s principals
“keep it simple, stupid & form follows function”

[horrido]

Perfect choice of motor for one of these.
This was a great video where they build one for a GTV...

[sean999r]

A £510 eBay special, not bad buy lots service history, not run last 4 years
At my local Alfa specialist, who I’m trading car parts towards removal of the engine/trans
Going use CV mid shaft and outputs from 3.2 GTA which are the desirable 108mm over std 100mm CV’s
Valuable info I gleaned from John Cross, he suffered many failures of 100’s in Rallycross until beefing up.
Racing always finds the weak points

2.5 has slightly closer gear ratios + lowest 3.93:1 ? R&P v  the 3.0 and 3.2 which have real motorway cruising ratios
The guy I got this car from breaks Alfa’s offered me a used Q2 diff which is a Torsen type, prefer a Plate type, just need to check prices to see if worth taking the cheaper used for the moment or wait, getting the chassis done is the top priority at the moment

[ToolsnTrack]

Count me in!

[biturbo228]

Nice! The 2.5 24v Alfa V6 is a real gem, even among the other versions. Very much the eager revver. Haven't done a great deal to mine all told, but I do know you can get a usable power increase from swapping in the larger diameter 3.0l inlet runners.

Much though a short 60mm stroke would make it even more eager, I'd be tempted to see if you can get the 156 running and see what you think about the nature of the engine before you go changing bits and pieces. Would get it running a lot quicker if it was used as a standard engine, even if you collect bits for a build later.

If you like a little more inspiration, here's mine when the exhaust rusted off and I thought I'd drive it around for a couple of days before fixing it because it sounded so good

[sean999r]

Nov 2, 2022 13:24:28 GMT biturbo228 said:

Nice! The 2.5 24v Alfa V6 is a real gem, even among the other versions. Very much the eager revver. Haven't done a great deal to mine all told, but I do know you can get a usable power increase from swapping in the larger diameter 3.0l inlet runners.

Much though a short 60mm stroke would make it even more eager, I'd be tempted to see if you can get the 156 running and see what you think about the nature of the engine before you go changing bits and pieces. Would get it running a lot quicker if it was used as a standard engine, even if you collect bits for a build later.

If you like a little more inspiration, here's mine when the exhaust rusted off and I thought I'd drive it around for a couple of days before fixing it because it sounded so good

Thanks
I’ve had a couple of Alfa V6’s in the past, first was 81 GTV6 back in 86, ( yer I’m old ) then in the States I resurrected a non running black 88 Alfa 75 2.5 (Milano over there) had that all stripped out to be a track car. Of course they were all 12V’ers
The Alfa shop is going to compression test it for me so I’ll have an idea how it is internally
I’ll waste to much time money going the test 1st
I really need the lump for build the chassis build

[Darkspeed]

Well you know I will be watching and taking motivation from it - My 75's were both 4 pots. a 1.8 and a TS LE - Always wanted a V6 Veloce.

I think the guy building his Stratos using the old Hawk centre tub and parts off mine is going IDFs on a 2.5 for that old school vibe - He has first refusal on the set of 40's that are on the C27A at present.

A good time back I was offered one of the 2.0L V6 turbo Alfa lumps but was doing other things at the time - Honda also did a C20A that had a nice short 63mm stroke.

Anything that can be done to make it sound less like a Busso and more like a Dino is a win in my book

[sean999r]

Nov 2, 2022 16:35:17 GMT Darkspeed said:

Well you know I will be watching and taking motivation from it - My 75's were both 4 pots. a 1.8 and a TS LE - Always wanted a V6 Veloce.

I think the guy building his Stratos using the old Hawk centre tub and parts off mine is going IDFs on a 2.5 for that old school vibe - He has first refusal on the set of 40's that are on the C27A at present.

A good time back I was offered one of the 2.0L V6 turbo Alfa lumps but was doing other things at the time - Honda also did a C20A that had a nice short 63mm stroke.

Anything that can be done to make it sound less like a Busso and more like a Dino is a win in my book

Re 2.0 Turbo V6’s I’ve found a few engines and short blocks for sale reasonably priced in Spain Portugal and Germany but not just the crank, going ask contact of mine in Portugal to see if he can find searching using native speaker probably turn something so don’t have to go engine route with the freight price import duties etc
My Alfa guy here might know something too so have wait see what I can find

I was weighing up cost TB ECU sensors harness etc then all the programming etc
New 44 IDF’s look the ticket it’s just hard to get a non distributor/ standard alone Programable crank trigger Ignition only system. But finally found SDS in US do set up for 4-6-8 that run carbs or mech FI

[sean999r]

Lancia really had to give in to Fiat as they held the purse strings and they wanted to fully back the Abarth 131’s
Later the amazing 037 came out but it’s not a Stratos, ie a tiny compact car.
Lancia originally wanted IR rear suspension but they had to concede to Struts on the rear

So imagine 037 type chassis but Stratos dimensions

My target is right around 800kg but hopefully just under that

[Woofwoof]

Bookmarked.

[Darkspeed]

The 800 KG target is what I am aiming for with mine - Litton chassis is not that heavy and even with the improvements and extra tubes I have added. Stripping the engine of the unnecessary production paraphernalia made a considerable difference.

The direction you are looking to take it sounds really interesting and I look forward to following the work.

[sean999r]

Nov 3, 2022 14:33:10 GMT Darkspeed said:

The 800 KG target is what I am aiming for with mine - Litton chassis is not that heavy and even with the improvements and extra tubes I have added. Stripping the engine of the unnecessary production paraphernalia made a considerable difference.

The direction you are looking to take it sounds really interesting and I look forward to following the work.

I’ve roughly measured the amount of tubing it’s surprising light, however it’s all speculation at the moment
I will be using 38mm x 1.6 for all the main tubing, 2.6 wall for rear roll hoop and door A pillar tubes
Probably 25mm - 3/4” for some brace tubes
I did find on web tube wall sizes of factory 037, they used some 1.2 wall in places
Sill’s Center tunnel floor front tub sheet and front X brace will all be folded 5251 1.5mm Ally.
Getting a all singing and dancing JD2 TV3 tube notcher this weekend
John called me today saying he got a order from someone else for Stratos doors, so he’s doing mine early ahead of schedule, should have center body mid December

[merryck]

Very excited to see this come together.

[blackpopracing]

Count me in. Any more info on the crank trigger standalone unit please?

[sean999r]

Nov 3, 2022 20:05:27 GMT blackpopracing said:

Count me in. Any more info on the crank trigger standalone unit please?

www.sdsefi.com/cpiauto.htm

[felix2566]

Along for the ride!