Lancia Beta Integrale?

[horrido]

Just idly curious about the idea, but I found myself wondering how hard it might be to build a Lancia Beta coupe with an Integrale driveline under it. Also made me wonder why Lancia didn't do it? Too flimsy for a rally car, or no room for a cage or something like them wanting to push the new model Delta at the time?
As funky and boxy as the Delta was, I always thought it was a pity they never made a coupe version (aside from the Hyena - and nobody was going to be rallying one of them). 

Is it possible?

[rattlecan]

If it is doable a ‘proper’ one would be worth 100 times more as standard, so the value would make it a none starter I’d guess.
I know it’s not always about that but they are just sooooo valuable it’s insane

[gettingold]

What was the est version of that car called...hopefully not Beta est but thats what sprung to my mind when i read your title or is it totally different the car i am thinking of.

[gettingold]

found it lancia Beta HPE

[norniron]

HPE meaning High Performance Estate

[biturbo228]

This idea has been rumbling around my head for quite a few years now. Always thought it would be stone cold awesome. Nearly bought a Beta for £1600 a while back to get it started, but couldn't quite get the cash together in time.

As far as I can tell it'd mostly be a case of letting a propshaft tunnel into the floor of the Beta, some clearance around the rear to fit a diff, and possibly a bit more around the bulkhead to clear the intermediate drive if it needs it.

Front suspension should be pips, but there might be issues if stuff like the driveshaft arrangements are different between Beta and Delta.

I'd initially thought the rear suspension might need a little more work to take power through it, but it doesn't look a million miles different to the Delta rear end. You'd need to sort a different hub to take a driveshaft and a shorter strut (X1/9 might be a candidate for struts as those are very short).

All seems fully doable, although far from a bolt-on job. Bet there's lots of little knock-on bits and pieces that would need sorting, but I can't see anything terribly difficult.

[79cord]

Lancia Range Advert 1982 (2) by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr


Wondered about integrale style boxed arches for a rust free 'scrap' coupe body I was given many years ago -some badly repaired rear damage (still in the shed with 3 slightly better examples!). & did know someone with an early coupe who'd bought a 16v turbo engine. Which wasn't going to fit too easily since Lancia had swapped intake & exhaust about.

The Beta was long out of production by the time the 4wd turbo Delta's were developed, having been briefly rallied 1974-5 with the older race/rally-spec Abarth 16v engines before the Stratos was fully homologated.

Packaging 4wd into the Beta would actually have been much easier than for the Delta since fuel-tank was already @ the back & there's much more room ahead of the front wheels despite the fact the Beta's engine was canted rearward for better weight distribution compared to the heavily modified Fiat Ritmo packaging of the Delta. Structurally there was no relationship between Beta & Delta. So it would still be a big undertaking.


& while the Beta coupe might have weighed more than a basic Delta? @1000kg +-50, it was actually lighter than the Monte-carlo that became the 037.

Weight wise & comparing basic versions there's actually little difference between Beta coupe, Delta, and the 'Beta' Monte-Carlo that became the 037.
Coupe w/base is 125mm shorter than Delta with larger f/r overhangs & 100mm lower roofline... Does make for an intriguing What-if....


There's also this delta s4 inspired mid-engined custom effort about. Don't remember where I saw the build thread.,

[horrido]

Jan 7, 2023 6:46:44 GMT 79cord said:

Wondered about integrale style boxed arches for a rust free 'scrap' coupe body I was given many years ago -some badly repaired rear damage (still in the shed with 3 slightly better examples!). & did know someone with an early coupe who'd bought a 16v turbo engine. Which wasn't going to fit too easily since Lancia had swapped intake & exhaust about.

The Beta was long out of production by the time the 4wd turbo Delta's were developed, having been briefly rallied 1973-4 with the older rally-spec 16v engines before the Stratos was fully homologated.

Packaging 4wd into the Beta would actually have been much easier than for the Delta since fuel-tank was already @ the back & there's much more room ahead of the front wheels despite the fact the Beta's engine was canted rearward for better weight distribution compared to the heavily modified Fiat Ritmo packaging of the Delta. Structurally there was no relationship between Beta & Delta. So it would still be a big undertaking.





They swapped the intake and exhaust? I didn't realise. I thought both cars used the Lampredi twin cam motor, or did that get modified?

[horrido]

Jan 6, 2023 20:18:01 GMT rattlecan said:

If it is doable a ‘proper’ one would be worth 100 times more as standard, so the value would make it a none starter I’d guess.
I know it’s not always about that but they are just sooooo valuable it’s insane

Have Integrales got madly expensive? I haven't given it a thought for a long time, but I can imagine they have. Even so, I thought it might be possible to scrape together a set of parts from a scrapped or written off one at least. 

[79cord]

Beta had the exhaust against the firewall but I gather Delta needed turbo to the front, & had engine canted forwards. Either way the engine has such a long history there were many revisions over the years, some more signifigant than others.

Believe there were also 16v 4wd Thema, Prisma & tipo-Delta. Though likely not commonplace either.

[rattlecan]

Jan 7, 2023 9:46:32 GMT horrido said:

Jan 6, 2023 20:18:01 GMT rattlecan said:

If it is doable a ‘proper’ one would be worth 100 times more as standard, so the value would make it a none starter I’d guess.
I know it’s not always about that but they are just sooooo valuable it’s insane

Have Integrales got madly expensive? I haven't given it a thought for a long time, but I can imagine they have. Even so, I thought it might be possible to scrape together a set of parts from a scrapped or written off one at least. 

Well they are pretty rare for a start, let’s be honest, so nailing down the values aren’t easy. There is a total of 1 on eBay atm £84k to you sir.
So I can’t imagine many people cutting that up as a donor

[horrido]

Jan 7, 2023 11:42:58 GMT rattlecan said:

Jan 7, 2023 9:46:32 GMT horrido said:

Have Integrales got madly expensive? I haven't given it a thought for a long time, but I can imagine they have. Even so, I thought it might be possible to scrape together a set of parts from a scrapped or written off one at least. 

Well they are pretty rare for a start, let’s be honest, so nailing down the values aren’t easy. There is a total of 1 on eBay atm £84k to you sir.
So I can’t imagine many people cutting that up as a donor

Indeed! 
Probably be lucky to find one that was totalled as a donor either, since they stick to the road so well.

Like I always wanted a VW Type 3 with a 911 flat six in it, having seen one at Santa Pod years ago. But that's a dumb idea these days, since it wouldn't be all that fast by comparison to modern stuff and it would cost you a fortune to build, thanks to insane Porsche prices.

[norm75]

Jan 7, 2023 10:55:41 GMT 79cord said:

Beta had the exhaust against the firewall but I gather Delta needed turbo to the front, & had engine canted forwards. Either way the engine has such a long history there were many revisions over the years, some more signifigant than others.

Believe there were also 16v 4wd Thema, Prisma & tipo-Delta. Though likely not commonplace either.

There is a Dedra turbo 4x4 (integrale running gear) for sale on car and classic atm.

Edit: just looked again, it is a Dedra hf integrale, which apparently was a thing.

[basquiat]

Hello everyone, and apologies for opening an old thread.

But I found just today whilst researching Beta Coupes through speedhunters and found exactly what you guys have been talking about.

A Beta Coupe with the engine from a Delta Integrale and AWD driveline. Raced by a group called Lancia Club Japan at the Idlers 12h Race in 2021.

Link: www.speedhunters.com/2021/07/cars-of-the-idlers-12h-race/

[horrido]

What a cool thing. Good find.

[mylittletony]

Jun 11, 2024 17:23:28 GMT basquiat said:

Hello everyone, and apologies for opening an old thread.

But I found just today whilst researching Beta Coupes through speedhunters and found exactly what you guys have been talking about.

A Beta Coupe with the engine from a Delta Integrale and AWD driveline. Raced by a group called Lancia Club Japan at the Idlers 12h Race in 2021.

Link: www.speedhunters.com/2021/07/cars-of-the-idlers-12h-race/

Great first post!! Thanks!

[bricol]

How have I not seen this before.

Ever since owning my first integrale 30 yrs ago, I always wondered about mating one with a Beta coupe. I'd run Beta's of varying types - coupes, HPE and one spyder before then.

My idea would have been similar to the "Yntegrale" (I think that's what it called by its creator) I saw several years later - some mad person had the crazy idea of taking a Lancia Y10 and an 8v integrale, sawing both off at the sills, and with a few (!) other modifications, mating the two. I can't find any mention of it on the net at the moment, but the owner's website for his work and racing is still up.

By the the time I had the time, some of the money, none of the space to do it, values of both had gone through the roof. And I'm not cutting up my integrale evo1 that I've owned for 20 yrs now!

I remember picking up a Lancia HPE on a trailer behind that integrale from a guy in Hereford maybe 15 yrs ago - he was busy putting integrale bits under Fiat coupes - apparently everything bolted up underneath with little modification required.

[horrido]

Well a Fiat COupe Integrale doesn't sound half bad either. Wonder how many he built?

[DarrenW]

Jun 12, 2024 12:47:04 GMT bricol said:

My idea would have been similar to the "Yntegrale" (I think that's what it called by its creator) I saw several years later - some mad person had the crazy idea of taking a Lancia Y10 and an 8v integrale, sawing both off at the sills, and with a few (!) other modifications, mating the two. I can't find any mention of it on the net at the moment, but the owner's website for his work and racing is still up.

Is it this one?

[horrido]

That~s the one. I'd forgotten all about that car. THere was an immense build thread somewhere, once upon a time. Must be terrifying.