Boosted Pinto.

[metalshapes]

Jun 30, 2024 21:00:34 GMT Enbloc said:

The "Folvo" conversion is interesting.

I assume its not as doable on a normal Pinto? You might have to remind of the deference's with the Lima.

The normal Pinto looks similar, but is completely different ( in every dimension, and I don't think any parts actually interchange between the two engines)

This swap only works on the ( US) Lima version.


From what I've read, there is very little difference between the block of a SVO and a regular Lima Pinto ( like you'd find in a Ranger P/U), just an extra oil drain for the turbo, but no strength advantage.
Same goes for the rods, apparently.
Pistons are much better and low compression.
SVO Head is a lot better a well, but that doesn't matter in this case.

So you could probably still build one with the parts you can find in the UK ( and the Volvo heads might be a lot easier than finding one here).
Its off a 740GLE, the later 16V version.
Most ( all?) Lima's have a dual bellhouse bolt pattern ( same as a 205, and the US application which places the top 2 bolts higher.
But the dowelpins are different size, so you need stepped ones to bolt it to a UK version bell.
Flywheel boltpattern is different too ( but I think with some redrilling it does fit).


The Lima is even heavier than a 205 Pinto, so that is a disadvantage.
But the bottom end has a reputation for being bulletproof ( good for 350Hp on stock parts).
And absolutely insane numbers with aftermarket parts.

But I don't plan on going that far.

I think I'll start at 1/2 boost, and gradually take it to the stock (for a SVO) 15PSI ( I don't plan on going higher than that).

In a boosted application, like what I'm doing, the head needs better valves and better valvesprings.

But the springs are cheap, because they are stock off a Ford V8 ( late model truck engine).


All in all, it could be a cheap alternative to a 205 with a Sierra Cosworth head...

[metalshapes]

There is more to it than just bolting the head to the block, but I'll post about it as I'm doing the conversion.

I've spent quite a bit of time online trying to figure out which parts I need, and where to get them...

[Enbloc]

Thanks for the explanation.

[jjeffries]

Very interesting about the Volvo head. I worked in a couple of a Volvo dealerships off and on in the oughties when the 16V engine was a thing of the past but we looked after a couple of them (station wagons) for Volvo loyalists. The mechanics always said the 8V turbo was the better engine … but that was for a Volvo, not a clubman race car (Mr. Obvious speaking). And, of course, people like those SAAB 16V motors, too.

John

[mylittletony]

The Volvo 16V heads are super sought after over here and not particularly common either. They breathe better than the 8v heads so are used for high power builds, but a std turbo 8v is a better drive than a 16v n/a (so I've heard)

They are also found on certain Penta (Volvo marine) engines, so if you live near a marina - have a look for an AQ171

[metalshapes]

As far as headswaps go, this one is about as simple as it gets.

But still, there are some problems to solve.

The timingbelt, for example...

This has been worked out by others in the past by using a Mitsibishi belt, which has the right length and the right width and pitch to work with the stock pulleys ( the Volvo ones, if I remember correctly).

But I had already bought a expensive Esslinger belt setup ( wider than stock and round tooth) which was the best fix for the belt skipping a tooth ( a known Lima Pinto problem).

Problem is, the belt it was made to work with had a different pitch than the Ford SVO and also different from the Volvo.

So first I had to find out what that belt was originally made for.

Turned out it was for a Ford Taurus SHO ( think its the one with the Yahama developed heads).

Which was bad news, because it has a oddball pitch and width...

I found a Gates list of belts, but they were randomly named ( not by size or specs).

So the only thing to do was just go through all the belts on the pages, until I found one with the right length ( I knew that number by looking up the specs of the Mitsubishi belt) , Pitch and width ( I knew those numbers by looking up the SHO belt).

Turns out, that type of belt is rarely used.

But I found one.

I ordered it and hoped for the best...

I found adapters to mate SVO cam pulleys to the Volvo cams ( on Ebay).

And I ordered one more adjustable cam pulley from Esslinger.

Next thing was to space the pulleys so the belt will run straight

Its starting to look like something...









Working out the tensioner is next.

[horrido]

Probably a dumb question, but aside from the fact you have the Pinto already, is there a good reason not to use the whole Volvo engine?

[metalshapes]

Yeah, this happened because I already owned the engine.

I saw the Volvo head on Ebay (not a complete engine), and I knew it would give me a lot more HP and torque.

The Pinto engine is built to take boost ( good/strong crank, rods, and pistons), the B234f is built to run N/A.

I've read the Volvo head does well with boost, but I'll have to replace the valves with better aftermarket ones.


From what I've read, although some people do use them, the Volvo B234f is not popular.

It has external balance shafts, and is tilted over to one side which apparently complicates engine swaps.

Even the Volvo guys don't use it ( they swap this same head onto their 8 valve engines).


But yeah, I've wondered the same thing when looking at some of the headswaps out there...

[metalshapes]

The original plan was to use the SVO with its stock cylinder head.

I already bought a dry sump pan, a scattershield, stainless steel exhaust manifold, aftermarket ignition, starter, flexplate, and the wide/round tooth belt kit for it, plus the intake manifold and twin IDF Webers I already owned.
( I got some really good deals on some of these parts, but I still have quite a bit of money wrapped up in them)


The intake will go back on the shelf, and unless I decide to modify it, the exhaust manifold will too.


All the rest of the parts I can still use after the Volvo head swap, even though they are Lima Pinto specific parts.

[metalshapes]

Intake and exhaust manifolds arrived from Sweden.

[dadstaxi]

Fascinating as always.

Can you perhaps rotate the exhaust manifold by 180 degrees even if it means relocating the starter motor, to give you a straighter exhaust exit and lower bonnet line and c.o.g?

[metalshapes]

Thanks dadstaxi .

The exhaust manifold is all wrong...

Its very nicely made.

But takes up too much space where the dry sump plumbing wants to be, and flipping it 180 would put it in my lap.

I think if I cut off the flange and the first couple of inches, and weld that to the SVO manifold with its flange cut off (both aftermarket stainless) I'll have something that will work.

The port spacing is about the same.


BTW, it may seem wasteful to cut up 2 manifolds to make one, but I don't think it is.

Materials (u-bends & flanges) are surprisingly expensive compared to complete ready made manifolds.

Specially in stainless.

By cutting and shutting it I may save some time, and I may have tubing left over to make a waste gate port ( depending on the size it needs).

[metalshapes]

It took a while to figure out how to make the timing belt setup.

I didnt like the options with the Pinto tensioner.

I had the idler pulley that matches the belt (Lexus ES250), so I ordered the matching tensioner as well and the pivot point bolt to mount it.

Now I could put the idler on the tension side, it bolts down with a 12mm bolt so it can take some force.

The idler is on the slack side, and the pivot point for the tensioner is 10mm.

I made a mounting plate out of a piece of 1/2" aluminum.

The idler and tensioner bolt to it, as well as the tensioner adjuster, a cooling fluid inlet, and the dry sump pump.

The plate mounts to the threaded holes that were used to mount the waterpump ( I'll put a electric pump somewhere in the car), plus some more bolts on the outside ends.

[metalshapes]

With all parts in place.

[metalshapes]

We used to live in town, but we moved outside of town some 20 years ago.

Which is great.

More elbow room, great neighbours (although we had that in town too, with friendships that still last)

But whenever I need to get parts or supplies I'm doing highway driving.

So over the years I have really warmed up to online buying.

Mostly very positive experiences, even with the international ones (you sometimes worry about international shipping and customs, but most of the time its not a problem at all).

But every once in a while you run into a bad one.

To do a specific machining job, I treated myself to a tilting table.

This will allow me to chuck up the part at a set angle, in a secure and accurate way.

Usually, you get a Email conformation of the sale, with the tracking info a day or so later.

Not this time...

But they did blow up my computer with spam, several times a day in Emails and Facebook.

After a phonecall and a Email from me the spam stopped, but still no tracking info...

( cant wait for it to get here, whenever that may be).


And then the even worse one...

I need a degree pulley to set the TDC and timing on the Blown Pinto.

A VW specialist (very well known name) seemed to have exactly what I needed, so I ordered one.

Again no tracking info, and almost 2 weeks later, no part.

I gave them a call.

"the part hasn't been shipped yet, but I don't know why because we have it in stock"

I have a lot of machining to do that cant happen until this pulley is done first, so I wasn't really happy with that news.

I suggested they'd send the part by overnight shipping to cover some of their screwup, but in the next 2 days still no part.

So I guess the answer was "NO".

Sensing that the people running this company might be as inept as a Australian breakdancer I drove into town and got what I needed from a local VW specialist.

So I can keep going...

[westbay]

Sadly part 'n parcel of online buying, in the good 'ole days when sellers actually had to talk to customers the whole thing seemed more positive i.e " ...yes mate got that on the shelf ..." or " ... nope can't get that for x days ..." , " ... you want overnight shipping? ... " , product knowledge and customer service seem to have dimished in direct correlation to the rise of online selling.

[metalshapes]

Aug 18, 2024 10:01:56 GMT westbay said:

Sadly part 'n parcel of online buying, in the good 'ole days when sellers actually had to talk to customers the whole thing seemed more positive i.e " ...yes mate got that on the shelf ..." or " ... nope can't get that for x days ..." , " ... you want overnight shipping? ... " , product knowledge and customer service seem to have dimished in direct correlation to the rise of online selling.

Yeah, you probably have to figure out a lot of stuff yourself now, as far as what fits what, and what could be adapted.

But on the other side of the coin, I can get a Weber intake for a B234f Volvo head out of Sweden within a week ( Thanks KL racing), or 45mm DCOE intake mounting rubbers out of the UK ( Classic Alfa) in the same amount of time.

That has gotten a lot easier than it was a couple of decades ago...

Back in the late '80s getting a set of racing tires sent from the UK to the Netherlands was a really big deal, which took a lot of organizing.

But, and I don't know how they did it, I had a set of tires from Demon Tweeks literally show up the next day here in Arizona from the UK.


Credit where credit is due.

It probably takes several people not dropping the ball to make things like that happen.

Starting with a vendor who has things in stock, and remembers to send them...

[metalshapes]

Other companies I've had very good experiences with:

Burton Power in the UK, I've been buying parts from them for years and I'm on first name basis with one of the guys there
( he even called one of his other customers, to get the right spring rate for front suspension on one of my buddies cars).

Axel Gerstl in Germany, classic Fiat 500 and 600 parts.

Scuderia Topolino in Germany, Classic Fiat tuning parts and Abarth parts, also on a first name basis.
He has gone out of his way for me in the past to find obscure Fiat parts that were not in his catalog.

Esslinger, 2.3 Pinto tuning parts.

CW Moss, early Ford parts( Model A and 1932), mostly resto stuff.


And the big stores like Summit, Jegs, and Speedway.
Very efficient at what they do ( even if they are probably squeezing the life blood out of the mom & pop stores...)

[metalshapes]

I made some adapters so I can use Alfa Romeo intake rubber mounts.

I did not want to run the regular O-ring setup, specially with a blow trough system.




I need to do some more work to them, but the hard part is done.







The VW pulley ( the 20% I did not cut away... )






And a pointer I made out of a Big Block Chevy pointer.











The header I made out of the 2 headers.

With a extra port for the wastegate.

[Enbloc]

Wowser!

That accessory drive is a work of art.