Bangernomics- the game's moved on

[akku]

You have to remember that while £250 used to buy a crappy but drivable car, £250 is a meal + drinks for 4 people in a nothing-that-special restaurant now.

Inflation has pushed everything up in numbers but not necessarily in spending/buying power....

You win one way, you lose another. Cars which have crippling tax, insurance, maintenance, ULEZ non-compliant will be cheaper to buy. But its a TCO game. When I bought a Mk2 Cavalier for £110 at the auctions the most expensive thing which could have failed was a £50 clutch or something. These days you buy a Vauxhall whatever and you can find a couple of grands worth of main-dealer-only stuff goes pop (or went pop and the seller hid that from you)

I bought a decent* XJ40 Sovereign for £1200. 11 months MOT and so on. But who wants a 36 year old Jag (even if it says its a Daimler?)

[pseudonymous]

I've always loved a bargain but decent car. I've never, ever spent more than £1200 on buying any car and I've had some lovely stuff. I particularly like finding nice cars when they're in their value trough.

A few years ago I gave up looking for a budget family wagon after months of fruitless searching. The base price in this part of the world (deep South England) on Autotrader was £1k and that was in every case, a ropey ****box with faults in every department and a questionable MOT, that would likely as not fail the next one dismally.

Gumtree and eBay were full of clowns, scammers and over priced tat. I don't use FB, never have, so I got someone to look for me and stumbled upon a high mileage Mk1 Focus C-Max diesel for sub-£1k. Tested, all standard and even the A/C was icy cold. It was the sole car I ever found that fit the requirements, that was in good order and cheap (as in, old money cheap). I'd add that my requirements were not demanding, just tested, not rotten, everything in working order and basic spec apart from working A/C.

It's been one of the best cars I've owned. Keep fit rear windows, I've only just got round to replacing the Ford 6000 head unit with a modern single DIN one and ... who cares. One of the last generation of cars that's basic and it's genuinely all you need in a family wagon. Bags of space, comfy as you like, easy to sit in when you're stuck in traffic and fairly simple, but with useful features like the modular rear seats. I'll only replace it when it gives up or gets to the point where repair is completely uneconomical.

I can see buying cars getting very difficult for me in the next few years, I don't want screens, apps, electronic everything or ultra low profile tyres. The first things I do in a modern are 1) work out how to turn off the screen and 2) brace myself for the bone crushing ride at the merest hint of a pothole. Only once you disable the screen you can't operate the radio, climate or turn off any one of several dozen useless options like lane assist. If you need things like lane assist, you shouldn't be allowed to operate a motor vehicle.

[briang]

Having seen that you cannot find an acceptable replacement for less than £1000 could you instead spend the money repairing your current Fiat? I note that you don't say what has failed, but a quick scan through the MOT history shows no mention of corrosion (on a 20 year old Fiat??)

[dazcapri]

I've always bought cheap bangers till a couple of years ago I decided to buy something a bit newer,66 reg Peugeot 208 diesel.It's the first car I've ever had finance on and it'll be the last,I panic bought it during covid lock down because my grand vitara packed up and I couldn't find anything cheap even though I paid 70% cash and the last bit on finance I've never felt like it's my car. It's going very soon and I'll be looking for another small 4x4. A few months after buying it I bought a Vivaro van for £500 from my brothers work, I drive a tipper end up covered in dust/mud and thought the car was too good for that,I've looked at getting a newer van and if I spend £2-2500 I'll be able to replace my van with exactly the same thing,it's shocking how much they've shot up in price. Just out of interest I put it through emr and scrap it was nearly £300.

[tubthumper]

Sept 19, 2024 21:59:10 GMT briang said:

Having seen that you cannot find an acceptable replacement for less than £1000 could you instead spend the money repairing your current Fiat? I note that you don't say what has failed, but a quick scan through the MOT history shows no mention of corrosion (on a 20 year old Fiat??)

It's certainly still an option. The clutch and DMF need replacing, but the issue could also be something more sinister, which would only be apparent once the box comes out. The clutch/dmf is around £900 to fix,and it would need transporting.

My dilemma is that the Multipla, bought for £500, has done 137k, is on its original turbo and is also overdue another cambelt. The bodywork is pretty poor and although reliable, is very much worn out.

I've not got the time/ will to do the clutch myself, especially as it would need to be done on the driveway and I'm concerned that throwing the best part of a grand at it might prove wasteful, especially as I'm venturing into the Ulez zone more now, and it's not compliant.

Saying all of the above, I'm still not 100% sure what to do.

[misteralz]

Yes you are. You've got a grand budgeted for a replacement which could throw up all sorts of horrors, or you could spend less on something that's known to be good. Ish. The sunk cost fallacy isn't always fallacy, you know?

[tubthumper]

Sept 20, 2024 8:31:45 GMT misteralz said:

Yes you are. You've got a grand budgeted for a replacement which could throw up all sorts of horrors, or you could spend less on something that's known to be good. Ish. The sunk cost fallacy isn't always fallacy, you know?

I think you're probably right, I'm just not used to spending big money. (for me) on cars,let alone repairs!

Anyone recommend a good recovery service near Aylesbury, to drag a Multipla to Mr Clutch in Hemel?

[skinnylew]

Still throws up the damn ScamLEZ issue though. Makes my blood boil and I wasn't in a position to even cast my vote against the poisonous little cretinous charlatan.

[tubthumper]

Sept 20, 2024 12:40:43 GMT skinnylew said:

Still throws up the damn ScamLEZ issue though. Makes my blood boil and I wasn't in a position to even cast my vote against the poisonous little cretinous charlatan.

It's certainly something that I can't just ignore.
I'll have to work out what it'll cost per month and see if there's anything I can do to mitigate the extra expense.

[skinnylew]

Sept 20, 2024 14:27:28 GMT tubthumper said:

Sept 20, 2024 12:40:43 GMT skinnylew said:

Still throws up the damn ScamLEZ issue though. Makes my blood boil and I wasn't in a position to even cast my vote against the poisonous little cretinous charlatan.

It's certainly something that I can't just ignore.
I'll have to work out what it'll cost per month and see if there's anything I can do to mitigate the extra expense.

I have half my fleet non compliant and none are diesels. I mean none of them have been on the road a good few years so it's not the worst problem but it is a pain none the less as they are all in limbo as retros/90's cars (2x Ax's, 2x106's, Fiesta mk3, Toledo V5)

[adam73bgt]

Sept 18, 2024 15:11:48 GMT adam73bgt said:

if a primera hatch/estate could be found for similar money might do the job of getting a drum kit in with ease?

Not the prettiest example but one turned up for sale www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409133982908?sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&body-type=Estate&fuel-type=Petrol&postcode=CV12%208AY&price-from=500&price-to=4000&year-to=2005&fromsra

Supposedly full service history, and Ulez OK for 600 quid

[tubthumper]

Sept 20, 2024 18:22:45 GMT adam73bgt said:

Sept 18, 2024 15:11:48 GMT adam73bgt said:

if a primera hatch/estate could be found for similar money might do the job of getting a drum kit in with ease?

Not the prettiest example but one turned up for sale www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409133982908?sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&body-type=Estate&fuel-type=Petrol&postcode=CV12%208AY&price-from=500&price-to=4000&year-to=2005&fromsra

Supposedly full service history, and Ulez OK for 600 quid

That's a good shout 👍

I'm working for the next few days,but my local garage has said to pop in and have a chat about my Multipla's clutch on Tuesday, and to weigh up the options.

[ChasR]

It has got alot harder to get cars these days, for sure. They are out there, but they are very few and far between, and thus pop up when you least expect them.

On my daily drivers, barring the fancy ones, I didn't spend more than £1.5k for anything that was over 8 years old. 2 years ago, I spent £3.5k on a 13 year old BMW estate, which wasn't free of faults, but a clean car overall. Sure, it's taken some cash over the year, but I'd be lying if I said my previous cars didn't cost a penny.

The only real bargain I got recently was the B5.5 Passat TDI Estate, which was sub-£500 ; at the time, I had offers at almost double to buy it off me, for what was a worn out filthy car ; the interior felt like you needed a tetanus shot when you got it ; it was a canal-owner car. The engine alone was probably worth what I paid for the car.

To get it to a standard I liked, and less like a ****box, it would take almost the same money again, not to mention the time, which is most likely why the previous owners sold it. If you include the 'detail' I did to the bodywork to remove 5 years worth of scratchwashes on Jet Black paintwork, it probably did owe me more, but it was a fun project. It also felt risky when I bought it TBH!

Inflation has played a big part, as well as cars breaking very well vs. what they are worth. As has been said, a weekly shop is proper money now, as is eating out with friends.

My dad bought a function but tired Audi A6 for £1k. It was tattier than we wanted and it needed the brakes rebuilding before we even hit the road, as well as an overdue cambelt, at our latest forare with bangernomics.

I do have three cars for sale (father's having a clearout), of which two would be useful for you, between £1.5-2k, where one could take the drumkit, but neither are ULEZ compliant ; PM me if you wish. One car at closer to £1k is compliant and a very good car, but I doubt it could take a drumkit. Reason why that is cheap is because Saabs don't seem to fetch as much, but I can also see why they don't.

[HmmDK]

Sept 18, 2024 12:23:31 GMT tubthumper said:

My shock is how much people are now asking,and presumably getting, for their old/ almost end of life cars.

I'd grown used to having quite a large choice of suitable bangers for under £600 locally, but having spent the last two days looking at a variety of cars advertised as " good runners" which appears to be the modern way of saying " would probably drive you to the nearest breakers yard", my realisation is you need over £1000 around my way to get something you won't need a tetanus jab after driving it.

I couldnt help myself, i checked how much inflation is responsible for, and with the numbers (first i found on google) i get an increase fom 2016 to 2024 that makes $600 turn into $828.



That last jump up to 1000, could be due to covid, i rember a few articles where they stated used cheap mini cars actually were going up in value due to the demand during the pandemic, i would not be suprised that it also affected the bangers

Numbers are fun!

Although these also are a bit sad

[andiewithanie]

set your home address to different locales and see what's avail further afield? i bought a 95 corolla a few years back for 300, but i had to get a train from durham to london to collect it; but 350 for what was an exceptional vehicle was absolutely worth it

[dieselmax]

Sept 21, 2024 8:19:41 GMT HmmDK said:

Little, cheap to run hatch backs is the one thing that sell very well right now; I sold my 2011 polo bluemotion recently with 156000 miles on the clock. The bidding stopped at £2070. I thought that was very good money for a car with that mileage.
People also coming out of expensive lease contracts, which they can no longer afford, so getting a cheap runaround is now all that people can do. So little hatch backs, and recently especially when they are automatic, the younger generation does not want to do the shifitng anymore, and do an automatic driving test. This then means they can only drive an automatic.

[ChasR]

The repair costs of cars is another thing for bangernomics costs, as well as the slowdown of new car sales.

More tech in cars does sometimes cost more to repair, but there is an element of substitutional change, once we take off the rose tinted glasses. KE-Jetronic cars were hard to diagnose and had pricey bits to change, and Crypton machines weren't cheap. Timing lights were the cheap items they once were, once inflation is accounted for. Furthermore, almost anything either required carefully prodding to get something right or to buy a series of manuals. A few of us forgot how self maintenance did have an investment cost without the advent of YouTube and forums. So there was always a cost.

However, labour was cheap. I remember my dad getting a very rotten MkIV XR3i patched up in all sorts of ways (boot floor, sills, both floorpans, and the battery tray), along with sorting out the handbrake and engine tune up for less than £500 20 years ago ; that price probably didn't change for almost 10 years. It was almost worth throwing it away, as a nicer XR3i would have been over double that back then with not much searching back then.

However, as property/land prices went up, so did overheads, which then went into the bills. When I started, a pricey garage was around £35/hr. These days, for someone who won't have your car leave with more faults than when it went in, you're looking at £60+ in most cases. I do know of 1 or two people cheaper who are great, but you're screwed if you need a car repaired in a week (TLDR ; you'll work to their time, and obviously, others know how good/cheap they are), thus you need a 'backup' daily, or look to another option.

For most, that option was a new car, especially when the PCP deals were favourable. The cars are likely to work, and you know you're not likely to be bitten by a hefty cost.

TBH, if I sent my 325d in to have work done, I wouldn't be far off a PCP deal and most would say it's not worth keeping. If you account for insurance, tax, repairs and servicing, it costs me £165 a month without fuel. Ouch! A few of us spoke about this and figured to have a car with creature comforts and to do it cheaper, it would take something like a Clio 1.5 DCi.

The other thing? Maybe this will be a 'B word' benefit, but with the influx of Europeans working over here, they were stunned at our car prices. They're massively cheap!

Go to Spain, France or Germany, and my '£4k on a good day' 325d is more like a £7k car. The SL? 5 figures with ease. I knew of Polish folks who used to buy engines and cars for not much off the asking price vs. 'our' guys offering a derisory sum, only to drive them back home, it was worth doing that!

[moggyman]

Some thoughts here. My cousin had no problem getting his drum kit into a 2dr Mark 1 Escort, or the 2dr Morris Minor he had before that. So maybe you might not need as big a car as you might think. It might be worth looking at a Toyota Yaris Verso. The engine is a little gem and it should take your kit ok.

[tubthumper]

Sept 25, 2024 18:35:00 GMT moggyman said:

Some thoughts here. My cousin had no problem getting his drum kit into a 2dr Mark 1 Escort, or the 2dr Morris Minor he had before that. So maybe you might not need as big a car as you might think. It might be worth looking at a Toyota Yaris Verso. The engine is a little gem and it should take your kit ok.

Drum kits certainly come in a variety of sizes, and having owned a 2dr 1300E years ago, I can assure you my kit definitely didn't fit in it, especially the 24" bass drum.

[tubthumper]

Just for reference, my kit just about fits into this trailer, which I use for gigs where I can safely leave it.