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Gotta admit its stupid how the Mayday one would need it. Actually..... I have had it checked over by VOSA (I know the head inspector for the local area). and its fine. Nothing I did to the chassis constitutes modification (I moved engine and gearbox mounts, and the body mounts - all allowed. I didn't change the wheelbase or alter the track width which is a HUGE no-no to vosa) and all the running gear IS the original so its still a 1954 Austin A40, with an open body conversion. I did get ticked off for no indicators, and my headlamps are 30mm too low to be legal, but that wont bag me an IVA. I did, in a way, I shifted the whole centre X back a foot!. Just counts same as a repair, apparantly. I'm honestly not sure where all this "swap one xmember need a SVA" talk is coming from. They only seem concerned if your wheelbase changes or suspension/steering mounts are messed with. Very interesting & encouraging news!!! Do you know the relevant part of the manual to confirm that? Not being argumentative, just wondering whether that's universally applied, or just that VOSA office's interpretation.
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I posted a link in the last IVA thread we had but I cant find it and i'm not at my home pc to repost it, you can swop an xmember as long as its classed as a repair, but as I said fitting a heavier one to support a winch isnt a repair its a modification, you can plate a chassis as its a repair (does that include boxing a chassis or not?) but you cant rebuild it with obviosly thicker gauge steel as thats modifying it.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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I did, in a way, I shifted the whole centre X back a foot!. Just counts same as a repair, apparantly. I'm honestly not sure where all this "swap one xmember need a SVA" talk is coming from. They only seem concerned if your wheelbase changes or suspension/steering mounts are messed with. A little bit of clarification is required here. DVLA and VOSA are 2 different departments with both being responsible to DfT ( Department for Transport. VOSA are NOT interested in any mods to your car until they are pointed out to them by DVLA or found in a roadside safety check. We have no knowledge of a 'modified' box to be ticked at MOT time YET . However we have reports of careless talk on the web leading to DfT and VOSA reviewing MOT inspection procedures but we have no firm outcome . From a DVLA point of view moving a crossmember IS a big deal as is any cutting and shortening though they will accpet removal of body /engine gearbox mounts. Though there are actually criteria laid down for what is or isn't acceptable by Policy Division much is still down to 'custom' at Local Office. Over at ACE www.the-ace.org.uk rather than simply moan and groan about all this stuff we have had input into the BIVA and continue to monitor and press for changes. Glass specs is one area that we think will change as the EC43 spec is going to exclude a lot of older cars ( as already mentioned ). I have personally attended a BIVA , this Tuesday , on a modified ( roof chopped) 80's motor that was spotted by DVLA and had it's V5C taken away and forced to go through BIVA. We liase with VOSA BIVA on a regulat basis and have extensive knowledge ie over 30 yeras of dealing with DVLA and how their rules should work. There is a degree of safeguards to older cars that were MODIFIED before 98 but since then any build outside of the rules for retaining identity should have gone through SVA and know BIVA . Practical Performance Car did an article clarifying DVLA's view 4 or 5 monthe back and ACE has been liasing with Custom Car to provide full details of the modified car registration history . The next couple of issues will cover an actual test on a Goods vehicle and shortly will be featuring a full BIVA spec test. If you have any specific queries feel free to contact us at the ACE website where we support and lobby for ALL car enthusiasts. You need to sign up to receive the newletter that gives more detail behind the site news. We deal with those who lobby UNECE at thr highest level and you would not believe where a lot of this is heading via the European Traffic Policy Framework. Likewise look out for info on the Right to Repair campaign and how it could affect parts for out older cars.
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Well, I think Andy Saunders is great!!! As for the IVA - there is a LOT of speculation and scare-mongering. After the last thread we had about it (haven't searched for it yet...) it seemed to me that when the facts of it were presented, it didn't seem that bad at all and certainly nowhere near as big a deal as the SVA. Did his car pass? Any details on what his experience of it was? This was the car where i attended the test. It came as a surprise tp Andy on what was checked but for those of us who have already been through, or involved for a long time there were no real suprises. It failed but on mainly minor points ( apart from a couple of pieces of glass not having the correct spec ) and most could be rectified in a couple of hours work. You are wasting your tome talking to VOSA about the 'ban' on car modifying as they will have no info on this. We spoke with te European Tuners Organisation ( who lobby UNECE ) and the info come sfrom discussion with them and the impact of both ISA ( Intelligent Speed Adapation) and ESC ( Emergency Stability Control ) that become mandatory in 2014 . Full info available from the ACE newsletter due out over the next 2 days. Also info in the Newsletter about the Chip Tuning ban in Germany that is considered being rolled out across Europe. As with all these things you have to know who to ask and what questions to ask to get the truth of the matter. As always ACE links direct to the papers and departments to show none of this is speculation .
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Most of that was already there re chassis mods since '98 (?), just not enforced. IVA (in draft anyway) talked about emissions tests which seemed strict - looked impossible to get a V8 with a lumpy cam through. On the monocoque side there's that tale of a roof-chopped Saxo being dobbed in for SVA, presumably by a jobsworth on the basis that shell=chassis and was modded. If anything it shows the thing is open to varying interpretation. Praps one of the ACE folks will chime in here? Full confirmed BIVA link here www.the-ace.org.uk/biva-manual-finalised.htmlWe have no info other than hearsay re the chopped Saxo story though we have tried to track it down. We do know of cars being stopped on the road , examined and then DVLA informed who later removed the right to reg document though.
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Last Edit: Jun 6, 2009 9:39:38 GMT by kapri
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Looking through this thread most of the stuff asked has already been covered on the ACE website.Please take the time to visit and sign up if you want to know the truth of what's happeeing. ACE was set up to protect the interests of all Car Enthusiasts , which also includes daily dricen Classisc who have been disowned by the FHBVC.
To quell rumours ACE grew for the concerns of some rodders but all those involved in the team have varying interests and can see the bigger picture that we need to stand side by side regardless.
Much of this stuff gets slipped through because no one believes the rumours. The site turns rumours into facts that all can access.
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its all very well for you boys but for us who build hot rods and kustoms its a I some how don't think my rod would of gone trough most of us run incorrect log books anyway?? yer yer I know a rod has passed a SVA but were not all minted and want that style of car, all I will say is its not a headless post watch this space TUV here we come o and I know how strict the germans are because they wanted to impound mine and VIP`s cars when we were there? Col, mine went through the SVA and I can assue you I'm NOT minted. Th epicture posted on this thread also shows it doesn't have to look like a kit car either. I'm currently gathering the parts to put an A Modified through the BIVA test with all the components that " can't possibly pass" . It's all in the approach and planning. Yup, looks like all this is about rods but it's not, it's about any modified car that would require BIVA . Rods are an extreme version ,unlike kit cars that have a formula to follow , no disprespect intende but there are loads of similar style vehicles to draw experience from . We are the ENVY of Europe as the only country to have a test that allows one offs to be built legally . However each members tate has the abilityto have an IVA test should it chose to .
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A bit of background. All thii is nothing new ,just coming round in it's usual cycle of things.
Type Approval was to come in 1977 which would have meant car modifying would have ceased. Due to the efforts of rodders and kit car builders this was stopped and plans put in place to create a super MOT to alow the free building of vehicles. It got bastardised by OEM to stop grey imports( creating SVA ) but it was those far sighted guys who leave us with a test that is usuable.
We have all the original magazine articles from the day to prove thsi is FACT.
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£199 is for Grey Import style cars that are far quicker to test. £450 ( reduced from a proposed £540 by lobbying from organisations such as ACE ) applies to Amateur built cars as the test takes between 6-8 hours.
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Ditto, have just emailled VOSA with a hyperthetical car and hyperthetical planned mods that many on here would do.. widen arches, different wheel, lowering springs and engine change without chassis/body modification (bolt in swap) to see if they say it would need an IVA.. hopefully an answer will put some peoples minds at rest as to if they need an IVA or not. I think its the above sort of mods that have people worried.. people building full on customs with chassis/body replacements/mods know they would of been in SVA territory and therefore are now in IVA territory. I'm guessing its the people like me that do a few 'simple' mods that are worried and need to know how far the IVA is going to stretch. Sorry guys but PLEASE don't keep mailing DVLA or VOSA with queries, you are just raising modified cars profiles uneccesarily. VOSA would not be able to answer you query as it's a DVLA issue. At ACE we can answer this queries for you without 'stirring the pot' The simple answer to all this is that if your plans mean chassis or monococque alterations you are into BIVA territory. Remember though this doesn't mean the car will be legal for road use as you are still governed by C&U regardless.
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Last Edit: Jun 6, 2009 8:58:35 GMT by kapri
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Even with altering the chassis, as far as I can see that still qualifies the car as an "Amateur built" car and is tested under the Basic IVA, which shouldn't be a problem if the car is properly built. Pretty much everything in the BIVA just seems like what would normally be considered in an MOT or are just common sense safety checks. I do agree that the price is pretty horrendous though! It NOW qualifies as Amatur Built but wouldn't have under SVA. Back then any car found on the road with a Reg number would have had to undergo ESVA which would require laboratory tests costing up to about £8000!!! So BIVA is a step forward and certainly cheaper than the above
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Some good info there thanks.. I never had an issue with the SVA rules and thought they were strict but fair and as far as I can see the IVA rules are still fair. As has been said its perfectly possible for a car to pass them, and nothing in them shouts out to me as being too harsh. A few things might cause issues like the safety glass stuff etc. but even that is a fair ask and for your own safety. I'm still trying to find a definitive answer as to how to know if your car requires an IVA.. if anyone can give me a link or simple language answer i'd appreciate it. Cheers Joe
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Daily: Spazda Mx5
'A52's Fastest steak eater 2010'
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I know alot of people here care greatly about the car scene as a whole. And although I'm aware we need to gather facts before worrying too much. I don't see how the head in the sand approach will work. I.E saying somthing like I don't see how I can be implimented or ill believe it when I see it. As that is what they rely on, us as a whole sitting back and not bothering to do anything about it as a group. If I knew how I would be trying to make a difference but I'm not up to speed on petitions and who to petition for that matter (i.e who is in charge of these changes) but I'm aware that there are people in the scene who know more than enough to put some plans into action. I think there are enough people in this country who would be affected by the growing number of rules they are placing on our hobby. and id assume these people would be more than happy to do somthing about it and help out in anyway they could given the chance. we need to do more than just wait You have to be careful of who you petition and what info you gie otherwi e you coudl hand the hobby to the powers that be on a plate ,think about it a bit;) You won't get existing laws changed, they've gone though period of consultation are on the books and that's that. You have to realise the difference between laws and regulations(which can be amended). ACE follows all the Consultation documents ( linked from the site ) and also follows the European law making process. THAT is the point you want input BEFORE it becomes law .Details of changes achieved by this method in the next newsletter. There is an organisation lobbying at the highest level in Europe on our behalfs but they have NO supprt from any UK manufacturer of company....yup that's right absolutely NO support or interest. ACE are liaising with SMMT to currently try to change this situation.
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Last Edit: Jun 6, 2009 9:26:51 GMT by kapri
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Obviously if you've not built the car to pass it will fail. Most car interiors pre 1990 would fail straight away, along with the exterior projections and radii. Matt Sorry but not so. Most cars built post 73 would be in with a fighting chance of passing as they were built to Type Approval standards which aren't far removed from BIVA .
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Cheers for the additional info. Have taken your advice and signed up to Ace newsletter. I take your point about contacting DVLA/VOSA no need to raise the profile as you said. Queries in future will be directed at you guys. Oh and thanks for answering my question about needing an IVA etc. Joe
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Daily: Spazda Mx5
'A52's Fastest steak eater 2010'
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"If the vehicle is accompanied by satisfactory evidence of compliance with interior fittings and the vehicle does not appear to be modified such that it would affect the evidence, the requirements of this section may be considered to be met."I think there's some built-in common sense to the IVA, which is a fortunate thing. AFAIK, the evidence of compliance is the approval certificated from another country - I don't think that having an unmodified interior from days gone by is enough. I could be wrong. In any case, the Basic IVA is more involved than the standard IVA - it performs inspections on everything rather than accepting documentary evidence, so no documentation would be accepted. And the comment about amateur built cars being in category M1 and therefore only costing £199 is incorrect - From what I can find they come under Class A and therefore cost the full £450. Aside form cost, however, it's not much harder than the SVA (I've looked at both manuals). As for the reports of MOT stations reporting to VOSA re: modified cars, we will have to wait and see. It's possible given current legislation, it's just that so far 'they' haven't bothered. This is only an issue if your car fails under the current 'points' system of identification. *NB - I Don't Know If This Bit Is True Or Not* Under said points system it seems that the bodyshell and chassis are treated as one unit - in the same way as a monocoque. This would suggest that major body surgery, even leaving the chassis/running gear/axles/steering intact would earn you an IVA. I don't think that the legislation actually specifies this - I haven't been able to find any definitive information. Again, this is a "wait and see what happens to the test case" situation. *NB - I Don't Know If This Bit Is True Or Not.* This isn't the 'end' of modified cars - it is just another piece of legislation to comply with. It can be complied with, so there need be no panic. Body ON chassis carries no points in the identification side of things ,change or chop about, no problems.
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All this seems fair for vehicles that are going to be built but can this be applied retrospectively? ........... John (obviously keen to know!) It's not applied retrospectively BUT ..once you modify you car beyond the rules allowed by DVLA the only way to reregister is by obtaining a MAC ( Ministers Approval Certificate) by going though BIVA / SVA /IVA so it must then meet current standards. If the car was on the road and modified before SVA came into being their are certain rules that must have been meet that will normally allow you not to have to go though the tests but your need a fair amount of proof .
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Sorry to have gone on a bit here Hope it's helped answers your questions. Again, if you ever have queries contact ACE www.the-ace.org.uk and we'll do our best to help. We've helped with a series of articles that have been running in Custom Car that answers a lot of queries. Or PM me here, on the NSRA or Rods and Sods for a phone number to chat things through,I don't bite and it'll save my aching typing finger ;D
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Last Edit: Jun 6, 2009 9:25:03 GMT by kapri
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kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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Sorry to have gone on a bit here ^^ don't be!! - all that advice is EXCELLENT and really helpful - and it's made me late for work!! -kev
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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