THREAD REVIVAL!!
düdo I'm sorry I missed the question, if you're still interested that picture was taken near Denmark Hill, near Peckham Rye and Camberwell.
I am laid up in bed and it's been so long since I last posted and it looks like I'll abroad for a little while yet - so thought I'd update:
Firstly the guys from DS Motorsport who restored the car asked if they could have it on their stand at the Gathering in 2015, some of you may recall it there - I wasn't present so Dan and the guys unearthed it from its slumber, detailed it and transported it down to Shelsley Walsh. I have two pics of it there:
(luckyseven -I hope you don't mind me reusing this from your great thread Click here)
Some further items into this car's somewhat interesting history: Way back in this story I mentioned I had fired an email off to BMW's museum archive with the chassis number to see what they had on it, I don't think I ever updated this thread with their reply so here it is:
Dear David,
The BMW 2800 CS VIN 2201276 was manufactured on March 24th, 1969 and delivered on April 11th, 1969 to Great Britain. The original colour was Tundra metallic, paint code 068.
General importer for the UK was BMW Concessionaires G, B. Ltd. Here are the addresses from the 1969 dealer directory:
Brigthon/Sussex 27, H 5
BMW Concessionaires G, B. Ltd., Victoria Road, Portslade BN 4 1 YG
Tel. 478 14/5 ©
Telex 0051. 87145
London, W. 11 27, G 5
BMW Concessionaires G. B. Ltd. 142 Holland Park Avenue
Tel. 01-727 0611
We hope this is helpful for you.
Yours sincerely,
Andreas Harz
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAY GmbH
Andreas Harz
Leopoldstraße 244
80807 München
Url.: www.way-services.com/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAY GmbH
Geschäftsführer Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Peter Schmidt
HRA 164739 Muenchen
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erreichbarkeit bei der BMW Group Classic
Tel.: +49 (0) 89-382-68281
mailto: info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.de
So some good nuggets for info there to complete it's life story. I then fired off an email to a guy called John Castle at the BMW car club who runs a dedicated E9 register for them, of which the previous owner Frank was a member when took the car to some shows. It was subsequently disbanded for some years before this chap got it going again With the aim of recording how many CS couples are left in the UK and what their market values are doing (check out this excellent article just published). As I've never been able to crack the problem of air in the brakes due to the car having been converted from LHD before it was sold new, I asked them if they had experienced this issue before and could they advise me. This is the reply I got back:
Dear David,
I was delighted to get your e-mail for all the wrong reasons! So thanks so
much for getting in touch.
In December 1968 when BMW first produced the 2800 CS, they were all left
hand drive. They were very expensive in the UK, partly due to Import Duty
and partly the exchange rate. BMW Concessionaires started importing them
through Dover in 1969 in small numbers and for an extra £313 (1969
prices)they could be converted to right hand drive.
Most were done in a facility in Dover. I have seen some which have a
mechanical link across the rear engine bulkhead so that the right hand brake
pedal can operate a left hand fitted combined master cylinder and brake
servo. Then, to my surprise I found a conversion which uses a 2002 clutch
master cylinder for the brake pedal connected to a 2002 clutch slave
cylinder fitted into the combined brake master cylinder/servo. With this
system the brake pedal movement is transferred hydraulically across the car
to operate the combined brake master cylinder and servo.
I had not realised that this conversion could be undertaken by dealers. They
would need the right hand drive pedal box, the hydraulics, the dash board
complete, possibly some steering parts and I suspect a different set of down
pipes for the exhaust. An ex BMW Concessionaires technician told me that all
these bits were sourced locally to Dover as and when needed. Perhaps Dick
Lovett were able to buy a conversion kit.
Turning to your problem you have in effect two hydraulic systems to bleed.
The "clutch adopted" system should have a bleed nipple on the slave cylinder
on the right hand side if you can get at it. The "adopted clutch" slave
cylinder should be installed with the inlet from the adopted clutch master
cylinder feeding into the bottom of the cylinder so that the bleed nipple is
on the top (where the air will collect). It is just possible that the slave
cylinder has been installed at some time upside down in which case (it will
be messy) you should swap over the inlet pipe and bleed nipple so that you
can then bleed the system properly. This bleed nipple will be the only one
for this "adopted" system.
The main brake system will be as standard. Bleed the servo first, then the
rear cylinders, then the fronts, inside nipple, then lower outside nipple
and top outside nipple last both sides.
YOU MUST USE A PRESSURE FED BLEEDING SYSTEM AND DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO OPERATE
THE FOOT BRAKE WHILE A NIPPLE IS OPEN as the pedal might go to the floor and
damage one of the seals.
I am copying this to Nick who helps run the Register with me. We keep all
details in confidence and your car is indeed a prize for us (the "wrong
reason" above!) as it will be one of the earlist cars still on the road in
the UK.
Let me know what you find and how you get on. I am sure we will crack this.
Very best regards
John.
So again, some interesting bits of history and now I know what to do to finally solve the brake issue when I'm back. I've been scouring eBay in Germany and U.K. and buying up the odd part when it comes up at a semi-reasonable price (although now it's common knowledge these are appreciating that is quite rare - €500 for a single used rear lamp lense is my current favourite joke).
The list of things to do once I'm back to get this back on the road and enjoying it on warm days is as follows:
1) Battery / Oil / Fuel change, then as it will have been some years since it last ran, a few squirts of oil down each bore before turning over and firing up.
2) Brakes - fluid change (as above).
3) Check tyres, they're only a few years old and I inflated them to 50psi some time ago and have rolled the car slightly forwards or backwards to relieve the tyres annually, not sure if this would have saved them?
4) Deep clean of the paintwork, It had a coat of wax on it that needs to come off along with dust / dirt. I may be going home this year so if possible I will do this then put the indoor cover back on to eliminate the need for this when the time comes.
5) MOT pre-check and then test.
6) Fix the sticky rear windows once again (the motors keep seizing up due to lack of use!).
7) Have a couple of guides fab'd up for the seat belts to make them more comfortable - a friend suggested something that attaches to the head rest posts on the seats and holds the belt up an inch or two just behind your shoulder, yet can easily slip off to allow the seats to tilt. Hmmm.
Beyond this there a few further jobs that really need to be done to really enjoy it:
1) The distibutor was "modified" by the previous owner to allow running on standard 95 unleaded (blobs of weld on the base plate to reduce the amount of ignition advance!). This needs grinding off. It could be that actually what he has done has caused the distributor (or parts of it) to be scrap, so new or used parts may be needed. Potential spend needed could be up to £100 to £150 for a good used distributor (eBay prices I've had pop up occasionally), assuming I can get one that's matched to my engine. A point that may be relevant to note is the cam is reputedly slightly updated from stock, the dizzy advance curve is not.
2) The twin Zenith Inat 35/40 twin-choke carburettors need a full rebuild and setting up correctly, this is within the realms of my capabilities but in reality I doubt I would have time and it would be expensive to do properly (I'd want to get all the components ultrasonically cleaned, plus I'd need a specialist, all told I'm sure I'm looking at £500 for the rebuild (if I'm extremely lucky) and then another £100 minimum to set them up).
I'm on the fence at this point: Do I spend £500 - 1000+ just to get all the standard bits back to rude health? Alternatively my mind has been going down this route:
- This car is already slightly "individualised" from standard spec: non-original (albeit correct period from BMW) colour, interior etc. and;
- The values of these are actually helped by sensible modifications to enhance the driving experience
- Fuel is only going to get more expensive again
So - Do I upgrade?
If the latter - My aims with any upgrade would be:
- Keep the original engine: It is sentimentally attached to the car because the previous owner rebuilt it and somehow it doesn't seem right to change it. I believe I don't need to do so to upgrade to EFI?
- Budget should be sensible (£1000 seems like the max I could get away with from the wife) and parts needed are fairly readily available - this rules out transplating a later E9 injection system which in any case would still be woeful in comparison to later setups
- Reliability / The thing doesn't need tinkering with once installed
- Improved fuel economy and hopefully some extra ponies
Opinions gladly welcomed in this thread in the Tech section
Sorry it's been a long post but hopefully some of you find this stuff of interest!
düdo I'm sorry I missed the question, if you're still interested that picture was taken near Denmark Hill, near Peckham Rye and Camberwell.
I am laid up in bed and it's been so long since I last posted and it looks like I'll abroad for a little while yet - so thought I'd update:
Firstly the guys from DS Motorsport who restored the car asked if they could have it on their stand at the Gathering in 2015, some of you may recall it there - I wasn't present so Dan and the guys unearthed it from its slumber, detailed it and transported it down to Shelsley Walsh. I have two pics of it there:
(luckyseven -I hope you don't mind me reusing this from your great thread Click here)
Some further items into this car's somewhat interesting history: Way back in this story I mentioned I had fired an email off to BMW's museum archive with the chassis number to see what they had on it, I don't think I ever updated this thread with their reply so here it is:
Dear David,
The BMW 2800 CS VIN 2201276 was manufactured on March 24th, 1969 and delivered on April 11th, 1969 to Great Britain. The original colour was Tundra metallic, paint code 068.
General importer for the UK was BMW Concessionaires G, B. Ltd. Here are the addresses from the 1969 dealer directory:
Brigthon/Sussex 27, H 5
BMW Concessionaires G, B. Ltd., Victoria Road, Portslade BN 4 1 YG
Tel. 478 14/5 ©
Telex 0051. 87145
London, W. 11 27, G 5
BMW Concessionaires G. B. Ltd. 142 Holland Park Avenue
Tel. 01-727 0611
We hope this is helpful for you.
Yours sincerely,
Andreas Harz
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAY GmbH
Andreas Harz
Leopoldstraße 244
80807 München
Url.: www.way-services.com/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAY GmbH
Geschäftsführer Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Peter Schmidt
HRA 164739 Muenchen
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erreichbarkeit bei der BMW Group Classic
Tel.: +49 (0) 89-382-68281
mailto: info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.de
So some good nuggets for info there to complete it's life story. I then fired off an email to a guy called John Castle at the BMW car club who runs a dedicated E9 register for them, of which the previous owner Frank was a member when took the car to some shows. It was subsequently disbanded for some years before this chap got it going again With the aim of recording how many CS couples are left in the UK and what their market values are doing (check out this excellent article just published). As I've never been able to crack the problem of air in the brakes due to the car having been converted from LHD before it was sold new, I asked them if they had experienced this issue before and could they advise me. This is the reply I got back:
Dear David,
I was delighted to get your e-mail for all the wrong reasons! So thanks so
much for getting in touch.
In December 1968 when BMW first produced the 2800 CS, they were all left
hand drive. They were very expensive in the UK, partly due to Import Duty
and partly the exchange rate. BMW Concessionaires started importing them
through Dover in 1969 in small numbers and for an extra £313 (1969
prices)they could be converted to right hand drive.
Most were done in a facility in Dover. I have seen some which have a
mechanical link across the rear engine bulkhead so that the right hand brake
pedal can operate a left hand fitted combined master cylinder and brake
servo. Then, to my surprise I found a conversion which uses a 2002 clutch
master cylinder for the brake pedal connected to a 2002 clutch slave
cylinder fitted into the combined brake master cylinder/servo. With this
system the brake pedal movement is transferred hydraulically across the car
to operate the combined brake master cylinder and servo.
I had not realised that this conversion could be undertaken by dealers. They
would need the right hand drive pedal box, the hydraulics, the dash board
complete, possibly some steering parts and I suspect a different set of down
pipes for the exhaust. An ex BMW Concessionaires technician told me that all
these bits were sourced locally to Dover as and when needed. Perhaps Dick
Lovett were able to buy a conversion kit.
Turning to your problem you have in effect two hydraulic systems to bleed.
The "clutch adopted" system should have a bleed nipple on the slave cylinder
on the right hand side if you can get at it. The "adopted clutch" slave
cylinder should be installed with the inlet from the adopted clutch master
cylinder feeding into the bottom of the cylinder so that the bleed nipple is
on the top (where the air will collect). It is just possible that the slave
cylinder has been installed at some time upside down in which case (it will
be messy) you should swap over the inlet pipe and bleed nipple so that you
can then bleed the system properly. This bleed nipple will be the only one
for this "adopted" system.
The main brake system will be as standard. Bleed the servo first, then the
rear cylinders, then the fronts, inside nipple, then lower outside nipple
and top outside nipple last both sides.
YOU MUST USE A PRESSURE FED BLEEDING SYSTEM AND DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO OPERATE
THE FOOT BRAKE WHILE A NIPPLE IS OPEN as the pedal might go to the floor and
damage one of the seals.
I am copying this to Nick who helps run the Register with me. We keep all
details in confidence and your car is indeed a prize for us (the "wrong
reason" above!) as it will be one of the earlist cars still on the road in
the UK.
Let me know what you find and how you get on. I am sure we will crack this.
Very best regards
John.
So again, some interesting bits of history and now I know what to do to finally solve the brake issue when I'm back. I've been scouring eBay in Germany and U.K. and buying up the odd part when it comes up at a semi-reasonable price (although now it's common knowledge these are appreciating that is quite rare - €500 for a single used rear lamp lense is my current favourite joke).
The list of things to do once I'm back to get this back on the road and enjoying it on warm days is as follows:
1) Battery / Oil / Fuel change, then as it will have been some years since it last ran, a few squirts of oil down each bore before turning over and firing up.
2) Brakes - fluid change (as above).
3) Check tyres, they're only a few years old and I inflated them to 50psi some time ago and have rolled the car slightly forwards or backwards to relieve the tyres annually, not sure if this would have saved them?
4) Deep clean of the paintwork, It had a coat of wax on it that needs to come off along with dust / dirt. I may be going home this year so if possible I will do this then put the indoor cover back on to eliminate the need for this when the time comes.
5) MOT pre-check and then test.
6) Fix the sticky rear windows once again (the motors keep seizing up due to lack of use!).
7) Have a couple of guides fab'd up for the seat belts to make them more comfortable - a friend suggested something that attaches to the head rest posts on the seats and holds the belt up an inch or two just behind your shoulder, yet can easily slip off to allow the seats to tilt. Hmmm.
Beyond this there a few further jobs that really need to be done to really enjoy it:
1) The distibutor was "modified" by the previous owner to allow running on standard 95 unleaded (blobs of weld on the base plate to reduce the amount of ignition advance!). This needs grinding off. It could be that actually what he has done has caused the distributor (or parts of it) to be scrap, so new or used parts may be needed. Potential spend needed could be up to £100 to £150 for a good used distributor (eBay prices I've had pop up occasionally), assuming I can get one that's matched to my engine. A point that may be relevant to note is the cam is reputedly slightly updated from stock, the dizzy advance curve is not.
2) The twin Zenith Inat 35/40 twin-choke carburettors need a full rebuild and setting up correctly, this is within the realms of my capabilities but in reality I doubt I would have time and it would be expensive to do properly (I'd want to get all the components ultrasonically cleaned, plus I'd need a specialist, all told I'm sure I'm looking at £500 for the rebuild (if I'm extremely lucky) and then another £100 minimum to set them up).
I'm on the fence at this point: Do I spend £500 - 1000+ just to get all the standard bits back to rude health? Alternatively my mind has been going down this route:
- This car is already slightly "individualised" from standard spec: non-original (albeit correct period from BMW) colour, interior etc. and;
- The values of these are actually helped by sensible modifications to enhance the driving experience
- Fuel is only going to get more expensive again
So - Do I upgrade?
If the latter - My aims with any upgrade would be:
- Keep the original engine: It is sentimentally attached to the car because the previous owner rebuilt it and somehow it doesn't seem right to change it. I believe I don't need to do so to upgrade to EFI?
- Budget should be sensible (£1000 seems like the max I could get away with from the wife) and parts needed are fairly readily available - this rules out transplating a later E9 injection system which in any case would still be woeful in comparison to later setups
- Reliability / The thing doesn't need tinkering with once installed
- Improved fuel economy and hopefully some extra ponies
Opinions gladly welcomed in this thread in the Tech section
Sorry it's been a long post but hopefully some of you find this stuff of interest!
