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May 10, 2011 14:00:08 GMT
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I'm sat looking at threads about engine swaps and assorted mayhem, like V8 Chevette's, Trabby engined Golf's and the like... How do you guys learn how to do this stuff? I think this all the time. I feel like a total imposter on this forum, having absolutely no skill whatsoever in tinkering with engines and suchlike. I'm in constant fear of being found out. Don't tell everyone Dan, they'll find us out.
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May 10, 2011 14:02:58 GMT
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If we just keep posting up pictures, everything will be OK.
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May 10, 2011 14:05:44 GMT
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I really hope you're right, I've grown quite attached to this place.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,714
Club RR Member Number: 34
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How do you guys do it??!?Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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May 10, 2011 14:13:22 GMT
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I grew up in a family environment where fixing/modifying something was better than replacing it. +1. and in the '90s that was seen as deeply uncool- everyone else was caught up in a 'throw it away and buy another one' consumerist society, where 'work' seen as something you did behind a computer screen, people who got their hands dirty were in a lower class and a whole generation pretty much never bothered to learn practical mechanical skills- as f they wouldnt be needed in the 'future' we were heading into. i look back at these people now who are stressing about their job security as theyve been 'promoted' to a Bullplop middle management job, or cant get jobs even though they have degrees, and feel pretty smug tbh. i enjoy what i do, and bring in far more work than i can possibly do. ile never be rich, but i really don't care. a little quote to sum it up- 'Qualifications once the Golden Rule are now just pieces of paper' i was pushed into a higher education programme i had no interest in as it was seen as 'better' than doing what i wanted to do. i dropped out after less than 2 years. i mostly dropped out as i was spending most of my time and my student loan on building cars and learning skills. I'm now totally unqualified, but the stuff i turn out speaks for itself. skills>qualifications. my dads a city and guilds certified mechanic, yet rings me when he wants something fixing as hes a bodger and he knows i can do it better than he can. my grandad understands me, as hes a 'make do and mend' kinda person, he was a plant engineer for 50 years and had no choice but to fix things as replacement parts either werent available or were a week away, and they needed the machines fixing immediately. he taught me to arc weld, gas weld and braze before i was out of primary school, and i was always chopping up, modifying and strengthening my BMXs and stuff like that, although its fair to say i did have his affinity for mechanics and i picked things up very easily. all the nuts and bolts stuff i picked up so quickly messing about with pushbikes, it kinda seemed like second nature when it came to applying it to something else. i did my first resto (a 1950 d1 bsa bantam) aided by him aged 14, which i then sold for a large profit to buy my first car. everything else ive been self taught. more than anything else, you have to be willing to learn, but also understand this stuff isnt easy, and you probably wont get it right first time. perseverance. went things start to go wrong, take a step back, have a brew, think it through, and ask for advice if youre not sure how to proceed. it seems british males have this attitude where you have to act like you know what youre doing all the time, cos youre less of a man if you admit youre out of your depth. 90% of expensive f-kups happen when youre in this state of mind. theres nothing wrong with admitting you're in over your head, and knowing when to stop and get expert help is as much of a skill as knowing when to persevere. the amount of jobs i get brought to sort out where if theyd stopped 10 mins earlier and rang me theyd have saved themselves a couple of hundred quid is unreal. despite what other people may tell you, ability isnt governed by the price of your tools. it governed by your expertise in using them. the old adage of a bad workman blaming his tools is true to a certain extent. the amount of people i see who don't understand the simple mechanical principles behind the simplest of tools- hammers, spanners, screwdrivers, chisels, etc. really surprises me. of course youre going to curse word things up if youre pressing that spanner away at an angle, or hitting something at the wrong angle! I'm sure there was a point to this when i started writing, but i think ive rambled a lot and ive ive forgotten it now i think the general gist is to not be in awe of anyone, and thing they're better than you, cos they're not. theyve just spent longer learning and honing their skills. start now, and youll catch up eventually
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mattyj
Part of things
Posts: 133
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May 10, 2011 14:42:03 GMT
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Ive just learnt by doing, good thing about buying cheap motors!
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Free Focus - soon to be roadworthy Corsa B 1.4 Sport - x16'd Cable tie edition - Dead Ford Ka - Sold BMW 318is - sump scraper - Sold Citroen Relay lwb - gone like the rest
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,594
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May 10, 2011 14:52:39 GMT
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As said above by many - the best way to learn is to get stuck in and do it - usually because finances dictate that you have no choice. Start with a basic tool kit and a wsm for your motor and do the simple things first.
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May 10, 2011 14:59:23 GMT
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I started out at the bottom at 17 - looking confusedly at the rotor arm on my Estelle. Then i figured out basic mechanics (thanks to my dad), then moved on to suspension, wheels, brake pads and so on. Did a couple of straight carb swaps, then attempted a non-straight carb swap. I got it to work eventually so that was another step up the ladder. it's all just experience and working your way up patiently - there are a few people with the ability to rebuild a car from scratch straight away but for most of us mortals it all began somewhere, doing something small. Sometimes I feel like I'm not as far on as I'd like - I've a few like for like engine swaps behind me but lining up a couple of cross-manufacturer swaps that will push me out of my comfort zone. Then again I did pursue a relatively successful career in junior management up until 18 months ago so didn't have all the time I'd have liked to learn this stuff.
One other thing I'd like to say for (hopefully) your benefit: July 2009 I was doing a HG on a trusty Skoda Favorit estate - a job I must have done a dozen times on various Skodas - and snapped a head bolt, destroying the engine. It may have taken some time but this morning that car was MOTd and taxed with a fresh engine and driving better than it ever did before. The point being that anyone can have problems doing a HG, even a familiar one, so don't feel bad about the Fiat head.
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May 10, 2011 16:01:33 GMT
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It's true, you can only learn by doing the jobs. Even now I use the Haynes manual or the Internet (brilliant isn't it!) as a guide and only a guide. Actually getting the tools on a problem often shows you an alternative method/better way/rubbish idea.
**tip for broken studs**
If there's nothing to get hold of, the break is flush with the head/exhaust/whatever, then find a large nut and weld through the middle of the nut onto the remains of the broken stud. Use a high current and get that nut glowing. A combination of the expansion and contraction helps free the solid rusted thing. Then when it's cooled a bit, try gently unwinding the stud using a spanner. I've just had to do this on my Cinq exhaust and it worked well.
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Peugeot 307sw - Suzuki SV650S - MX5.
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speedy88
Club Retro Rides Member
"Nice Cortina mate"
Posts: 2,279
Club RR Member Number: 118
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How do you guys do it??!?speedy88
@speedy88
Club Retro Rides Member 118
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May 10, 2011 16:02:36 GMT
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2 years ago I knew nothing but always wanted to. Now I feel that I could do any job (tools and time provided). You begin to realise that past a certain point cars are just nuts and bolts. Concentration, time and pictures (i take a picture of what I'm doing so I remember where the bolts go) go very far.
Time is most important. The pressure of getting the job done quickly often kills any fun.
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May 10, 2011 16:58:01 GMT
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Initially paid someone to do standard repairs while I was watching. Decided it didn't look difficult so I'd give it a try. Worked on any car I could to gain experience. Then wanted to customise and so taught myslef by trial and error. Keep an open mind don't get despondent and keep trying. Still practicing and learning 40 years on. Dez , " Up in the morning and out to school , Mother says there'll be no work next year"
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May 10, 2011 17:01:25 GMT
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as others have said really its just learning by experience really, though you do need to have your mind set for being able to do that sort of thing in the first place. i have always learnt by just trying stuff and researching it . i started at a very early age of about 3 apparently taking things apart to see how they work ;D and have been pretty much doing that since really my first non standard engine swap was at 15 when i put an allegro 1500 ohc in a mini but I've always been interested in fabricating bits so that helps with the more technical jobs. also if i take something apart i can usually put it back together which helps ;D
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May 10, 2011 17:03:54 GMT
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I learned by being a tightwad and/or broke. Can't afford to get someone else to do it, so read up, learn and do it yourself. Forced into a corner is a good way for me to learn. Not everyone does, but I still enjoy taking things apart, seeing how they work by turning/moving things with the covers off and determining how it was assembled.
I grew up with the adage from my father- "Taking it apart and putting it together again is easy. Taking it apart and putting it back together and making it work, that's the hard part."
I used to spend time reading Haynes manuals. That helped, the exploded diagrams were like candy to me.
--Phil
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May 10, 2011 17:10:10 GMT
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a little quote to sum it up- 'Qualifications once the Golden Rule are now just pieces of paper' Unless you have relevant qualifications, in which case you're much better off. You might get along just fine without qualifications, but you're a fool if you think you're better off without them! I learned entirely by being interested and wanting to know how things worked. Having enthusiastic parents also helped, but i must be part of the first generation to have learned the majority of skills from the internet!
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1997 TVR Chimaera 2009 Westfield Megabusa
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md
Part of things
Posts: 839
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May 10, 2011 17:40:23 GMT
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Tbh I started off only learning to do simple stuff like brakes as I couldnt afford to pay a garage to do it, and I was satisfied with that for years, but i'd read a lot about engine swaps on forms, so when a few years ago my sister wrecked the bottom end on her Corsa I gave it a go as a like for like swap, and that went well due to research into common issues, taking a systematic approach and labelling absolutely everything. From there I've progressed to doing common swaps my most adventurous is an H22 from a Prelude into an EK Civic, but no fabbing up of stuff or welding is involved as custom mounts etc are all widely available. I'm now looking into learning to weld and when I'm confident enough about it I'll take on a project I've wanted to do for a while that takes a lot of custom fabbing etc You just have to learn as you go along, and if you don't wanna dive into a mega project just do what I did and try like for like first and build your experience til you have the confidence to take on something crazy
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May 10, 2011 17:55:36 GMT
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How do you guys learn how to do this stuff? I can't claim to be anywhere near the skill level of many of those people on here that have mad skills like BiAS, Nitemares, Dez, TonyBMW etc. As Dan said: when I see folks swapping engines, fabricating scratchbuild components, and welding metal together, I find it all pretty humbling... However, I like to think that I know which end of a spanner is which, and that I could tackle most mechanical jobs on an already existing car - from replacing brake pads up to an engine rebuild and like-for-like swap - excluding gearbox rebuilds. Those jobs that largely involve nuts and bolts and replacement bits. I learned through a combination of having hands-on parents and grandparents, watching informative TV programmes, mucking about with petrol lawnmower type engines, and finally moving onto my own car. Much of what I learned came from 'helping' my dad service the family car, and wathing him both repair a motorcycle and prepare a Capri for sprints and hillclimbs. This helped with a basic understanding of what goes where on an engine. Later, I learned how engines worked, largely through books, museum cutaways, and TV programs. Perhaps the most useful TV program was called "The Secret Life Of Machines," which was part of a series of programs on CHannel 4 about everyday technology, broadcast in the late 80s and early 90s. Here is a link to Part 1 of "The Secret Life of the Internal Combustion Engine" on YouTube: Parts 2 and 3 are here: It's aimed at the complete novice - so may be too basic for some here - but the combination of intuitive explanations, physical and historical examples, and cut away animations explain in some detail the workings of a modern(-ish) car engine. It's more than a little retro, too. ;D In case you enjoyed that, there's also "The Secret Life of the Car". Part one: After having my interest in all things mechanical confirmed, I started to muck about with small petrol engines - lwanmower type stuff. These are cheap enough when broken to be able to rip apart without worrying about whether or not they go back together, and simple enough to be able to understand without difficulty. If you really want to learn about the inside of an engine without taking your car to bits - buy an old Briggs and Stratton first. Lastly - and most importantly by far - there's my first car - an Imp. Due to the relative simplicity - and utter unreliability - of this car, it enabled me to learn a vast amount about car maintenance. Initially, I was largely dependent on my Dad for assistance and guidance, but as I did more to the car I gained in confidence and, as Speedy88 has said, realised that a car is just a large collection of very simple parts. Most bits of a car consist of levers, bearings, seals, hoses, pipes, and supporting structures. By moving parts, or removing parts from other parts you can often see what does what and, perhaps, why it's not working. Getting stuck in is a very good way forward. Yes, you will suffer setbacks, but so does everyone, often through no fault of their own. The important thing is to learn from your experiences, and to be aware of what went wrong next time. In this way, you gradually build up your arsenal of skills, enabling you to tackle increasinly complex jobs. Each time you tackle such a job, you'll probably learn something new to add to your memory banks, making it easier next time you need to do something similar. Just last November, I fitted a rebuilt engine to my Imp, and it broke down within 5 miles due to an incorrect timing chain. From that I learned to inspect all the parts you buy thoroughly before fitting them - even a marque expert can pull the wrong bit off a shelf sometimes. While I haven't fitted a different engine into a car it seems to be largely a case of putting it in the hole and connecting bits up until it works. Perhaps the most complex part is working out propshaft angles. Don't look at it as an engine swap, instead see it as a list of tasks to complete - positioning, mounting, cooling, fuelling, wiring, etc. - and it shouldn't (in theory) be that complex. Personally, I see bodywork - especially cosmetic bodywork - as a much bigger challenge as it needs a completely different set of skills from mechanical stuff, and even from knocking up some engine mounting brackets.
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May 10, 2011 18:08:54 GMT
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I got my first car at 16 for when I passed my driving test I knew very little about cars mechanically then. My car had water coming out of the exhaust, so after I read about it i found it was the head gasket so before I even got to drive it it had a big problem so rather than sit there looking at it I got stuck in and changed the head gasket. Asked people loads of questions before hand and read as much as I could. As it was a 1.1 fiesta it was a basic engine but I learnt the principle. After I did that I started doing more and more on cars over the years gaining some excellent knowledge and nice stash of tools.
I used to get performance ford and FF religiously every month and the amount of knowledge I picked up from them magazines is unbelievable. The magazines are doing step by steps more and more now, fast ford even did a engine conversion step by step the other month. even though the make might not be your cup of tea its good to pick up the car mags and read the features and how to guides you'll learn little golden nuggets from them.
I envy people that are not phased by engine looms, something that gives me a big headache.
Ill one day do my zetec turbo conversion in a mk3 fiesta.
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Last Edit: May 10, 2011 18:12:50 GMT by cruisin
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tome30
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,001
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May 10, 2011 18:39:07 GMT
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You begin to realise that past a certain point cars are just nuts and bolts. Concentration, time and pictures go very far. Quote of the month for me!!
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May 10, 2011 18:50:18 GMT
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if anybody is thinking about a project heres how i start with mine. think about what you want. look at other examples of the same car in a standard form . look at how its lines flow what can be changed to make it better and how what you want to do with it can complement it or improve it . get the plan in place and stick to it by first making the base vehicle sound then making your alterations to it . don't loose hart with it because there will be times where it will look like its going nowhere and most of all don't build it for anybody but yourself if its how you want it you will be happy with it. other people don't have the same vision you do. some will offer good suggestions hints and tips on the safety side of things or to make things easier for you to do the job listen to these people and some will always feel the need to tell you you are wrong even if they have no idea themselves don't listen to these people its yours to do your way
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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May 10, 2011 19:29:10 GMT
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I'm quite lucky in that I was born with a spanner in one hand, a welding torch in the other and 15W50 running throught my veins !
I also grew up in the 80's/90's when it was fashionable to push everyone into F.E. and as a result there is a skills shortage now. I sidestepped that and actually wanted to go to work to make things. I did an Engineering apprenticeship, doing part time HNC mechanincal and production engineering, and then did a Plant mechanic apprenticeshipd doing NVQ. The paper work merely gave me the theoretical background on which to base practical skills, but in this day of the Interweb, information is everywhere and easy to get. Understanding it is an aquired skill and may need some outside guidance.
I always was, and still am, a big believer in experience. You can read all the books in the world, but they don't teach you how to hold a spanner. Practice, practice, practice. The more you do, the more you'll acheive, and ultimately, the more your confidence will grow.
Stick with it, and have a tinker. If you want to learn, you will !!
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60six
Posted a lot
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Posts: 1,658
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May 10, 2011 19:35:33 GMT
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It's all about (well, for me anyway back in the day) being in a group of mates who all had the same passion, and need to make their cars go faster - Trial and error - Damn, the engine mount I welded on is 6mm out, curse word - out with the lump, out with the grinder and try again.....
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Some 9000's, a 900, an RX8 & a beetle
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