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Link to the car is question in my signature. My Triumph Herald 1200 has it's MOT at the start of June. For that MOT it's going to need a new front nearside outrigger (already bought, but I can't weld), and a new exhaust system (the current is a temporary bodge from when it snapped a few months back). However I also have a compression/bore wear issue with the engine (getting from 65-75psi per cylinder, supposed to be 130(?)) realistically the engine needs replacing at some point, and it seems silly to spend ~£150-250 getting a new exhaust system fitted, which won't be retrofit if I change the engine (since if I changed the engine it'd probably not be a 1200). The other problem is I'm going to university in September, and was thinking of selling it around then, but I wasn't sure. So basically, how much would I get for the car in it's current state if I were to "cut my losses" and sell it now? and... if I do decide to change the engine, I will need somebody else to fit it, so realistically it's going to be some kind of Triumph 4 pot, but which should I choose? Bare in mind I'm 19 and it needs to be insurable. I've got a quote for £700-800 (labour+parts) to have the outrigger fitted, and "new" 1300 Toledo engine and exhaust supplied and fitted, slightly more for a 1500 etc. (I don't have the time, knowledge or tools to fit the engine myself) So what do you think I should do?  ?  |
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Last Edit: Jun 4, 2011 15:42:59 GMT by yantorsen
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If your going to sell it with a short MOT take it in for one anyway and keep the failiure sheet with it, it will make it worth more and I think more people will be interested knowing what needs doing.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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I think that you should keep the car, get a few mates to help you and do the work yourself.
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Hadn't thought of that, that's good to know popuptoaster. waveman, even I had mates that would be able to help, I still wouldn't have the time, I work 6 days a week, and I'm at collage, got exams etc. the rest of the time.
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craig1010cc
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,993
Club RR Member Number: 35
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Engine dilemma...craig1010cc
@craig1010cc
Club Retro Rides Member 35
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£800 sounds pretty reasonable for the work you have described, but might be worth sticking it in for an MOT before hand just to make sure that it doesn't need more work to pass.
As to its current value, needing structual welding, engine rebuild and cosmetic repairs, £5/600?
If you are still thinking of selling it after the summer, I would either try and get it through the MOT on the worn engine, or fit another 1200 in its place (it will be easier to sell and prob worth a little more as a standard car)
Is storing it for a while until you can rebuild it yourself an option and spend the money you'd have spent fixing it this time on something (prob boring) with long MOT/Tax? Even if it is just until you go to Uni, get something like a corsa/Micra and you shouldn't lose money on it over 3 months
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at least with the age of the car, even if the engine is worn, emissions shouldnt be an issue as long as its not smoking, so that can be done later
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at least with the age of the car, even if the engine is worn, emissions shouldnt be an issue as long as its not smoking, so that can be done later Yes, but as I just posted in the thread in Reader's Rides, 75psi of compression on all cylinders will lead to significant amounts of smoke and a thirst for oil. |
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Engine dilemma...BenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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I think if you're going to sell it, you should sell it "as is" - you'd probably end up making less money selling the car for more after paying out for all the work. If you're keeping it, I'd either just replace the engine with another 1200, or go for a 1300. |
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£800 also includes the cost of MOTing it and a full service. He said what he'd do is get it MOT'd first, then do the work within two weeks then get it retested for free.
Storing is not an option I have no where to store it. Problem is as well selling it now is risky, because if I don't get the grades for university, then I'll still want the car. Also insuring a more "boring" car is probably going to cost more because classic insurance is so cheap compared with normal insurance and I have no NCB.
I'm not getting any smoke out of the car, which the guy who looked at it found surprising considering the low compression.
The other option is... selling it as is... for say £600, then finding another Herald in better nick, for the cost of what I'd do to my current one and what I get from selling it, which is £1400. But I'm not sure which way would get me a better Herald, improving/repairing mine, or buying another which is an unknown quantity so to speak.
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Last Edit: Jun 4, 2011 18:09:10 GMT by yantorsen
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have a look at welders and engine cranes, its all a lot easier than it seems
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1992 190E 2.0 - first car, currently being driven by the wife.
1989 500SEC
1968 W115 4.2 V8
2000 CL500
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few years ago I probably would have, but I don't have time, and I've got a nerve disease which effects my hands, so it make even putting petrol in the car fairly challenging. Plus I can't really justify spending the time on it when I need to be studying.
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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As others have said, that sounds like a pretty reasonable price to have the work done.
Isn't there only about 4 weeks left of college before you get a 2 1/2 month brake? Changing an engine in a herald really shouldn't be too tricky.
I was in the same position as you the last 2 years, I needed my car for work and college (bus times weren't even close to my time-table, and I live 30 miles away, so I really did NEED it), and with college and work, and a work experience placement I was only free one day a week. Still, when my Scirocco needed a new engine for it's MOT I called in a few favours from friends and colleague and we managed to change the engine one Saturday (my only day off). Then it failed the MOT on a few small jobs and a bit of welding on a jacking point, so we did that the next Saturday. Paying someone wasn't an option for me, as I didn't have the money.
That said, if you don't know the right people that may not be possible, but don't dismiss the idea of doing it yourself/with mates too quickly.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,192
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Engine dilemma...ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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IMO, I'd keep it if you do not think that you could live with a 'modern'. One thing to bear in mind is that moderns can be cheaper in other aspects over a classic, something worth thinking if you start to do a significant amount of miles (radiators for example are much cheaper in a number of moderns as are suspension bits etc.). I guess it depends on how you want to spend your car . There are other alternatives if you do need a car though (Rob seems to be doing it in his Acclaim  . I still have the welder lying around and plenty of gas, if you run out of options on the welding front. As the others have said, changing an engine in a Herald is not too tricky, nor is the exhaust. I would also be tempted with the 1300 idea . As for insurance, you are best of checking before assuming the worst. A 1200 Beetle I had with a 1300 TP engine was no more to insure over a stock 1200. |
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Last Edit: Jun 4, 2011 22:04:49 GMT by ChasR
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craig1010cc
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,993
Club RR Member Number: 35
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Engine dilemma...craig1010cc
@craig1010cc
Club Retro Rides Member 35
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The quote does sound very good with an MOT and service included. If your engine is running ok and using little oil, I wouldn't be in a hurry to get it changed for another used engine (which could have its own faults soon down the line) and I buying another Herald could easily leave you in the same position.
I would get it serviced, welded and MOT'd. Patching up the exhaust shouldn't be too hard for them either. Then continue to enjoy it until Sept and if you need to sell it then, it is a running MOT'd car (albeit a bit frilly and with a tiered engine) which should sell fine.
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Yep Robin, but I also work 6 days a week outside of college, and I need the car to get to work or I have a 2 hour walk, so couldn't really afford to do it over several days off.
I just got some insurance quotes, and it seems to be done on power, but the only power figures I've got are from wiki, so basically it'll be ~£100 more to insure it with a 1300@58bhp, and ~£150 more to insure it with a 1500@71bhp. So I'm thinking of getting the 1500, it's a bit more, but I can justify it easier if I'm also getting a bit more power. My only worry is if I'm going to be making it hard to sell, since anyone who can insure a 1500cc old triumph would probably rather have a vittesse or a spitfire?
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Last Edit: Jun 7, 2011 11:09:49 GMT by yantorsen
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I just got some insurance quotes, and it seems to be done on power, but the only power figures I've got are from wiki, so basically it'll be ~£100 more to insure it with a 1300@58bhp, and ~£150 more to insure it with a 1500@71bhp. So I'm thinking of getting the 1500, it's a bit more, but I can justify it easier if I'm also getting a bit more power. My only worry is if I'm going to be making it hard to sell, since anyone who can insure a 1500cc old triumph would probably rather have a vittesse or a spitfire? Without wishing to be rude.. It's not a concours car anyway, so it not having the original engine is hardly going to be the end of the world and they aren't worth that much to start with. I'd go for whatever reasonable 1300 or 1500 came up with an OD 'box and enjoy driving it. You will never make any significant amount of money on it, so you may as well build it to a spec that pleases you rather than what you think a buyer will want. I had a 13/60 which was a previous Cat C, with a 1300 (but not the original one) and an OD box and got about £900 for it with a full MOT. I don't think it would have made the slightest bit of difference to the value if it had the original engine and gearbox. The Cat C probably knocked a smidgen off but even that won't have much of an effect on a car of this age. |
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...proper medallion man chest wig motoring. |
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Yeah true, but I do plan on getting the body work much better than it currently is at some point, was going to be over the summer, but will probably be next summer now since I won't have any money.
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Which is exhaust is best to go for? Canley classics recommend a Vitesse system, single exit, but I rather fancy a twin back box system. Which do people recommend and why?
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Yep Robin, but I also work 6 days a week outside of college, and I need the car to get to work or I have a 2 hour walk, so couldn't really afford to do it over several days off.... So the same possition I explained I was in  Only I'm a 7.5 hour walk away from college. I did it over 2 separate individual days off, and drove it for the week in the middle. It's possible, obviously it involved working pretty hard, and help from a couple of friends, but then a Scirocco's engines a fair bit bigger job to swap. Either way, I wasn't trying to criticise, just saying that it is possible, so all isn't lost if it turns out it's really your only option. As for the exhaust, I doubt it'll make any noticeable difference to performance as long as both are a similar quality, so go for whatever you like the look of most. |
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I haven't got friends that know anything about swapping engines, well a few I guess but doubt they'd be free. Either way it'd just end up them doing all the work and me standing there watching and making cups of tea because I wouldn't know where to start.
I like the look of the twin back box exhausts you get on spitfires, similar to what goodoldluke has on his herald, but the canley classics bloke told me they look silly and they are considered a joke in the trade (his opinion fair enough) but the main thing he highlighted was that they have to be mounted under the spare wheel well which means they're very low to the ground and if you're going to lower it at some point would get caught on speed humps etc.
I love the look and sound of this though...
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Last Edit: Jun 8, 2011 15:20:10 GMT by yantorsen
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? 
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Only I'm a 7.5 hour walk away from college. I did it over 2 separate individual days off, and drove it for the week in the middle. It's possible, obviously it involved working pretty hard, and help from a couple of friends, but then a Scirocco's engines a fair bit bigger job to swap. Either way, I wasn't trying to criticise, just saying that it is possible, so all isn't lost if it turns out it's really your only option.