MOT retest fail. More then full test

[Minikidx14]

Basicly my car failed its mot, i took it back earlyer today and they done a retest. However in the retest they tested things that didnt fail the original test and failed them. Are they alowed to fail additional items then they did in the original test? I don't think its fair that they passed it 1st time then failed it 7 days and 20miles later. Are they trying to make money thinking I'm going to go back to them and pay for another test?

[Minikidx14]

Also am i able to drive the car to a rolling road with no tax or mot. I need the carb setting up for it to pass the mot, If I'm not alowed to drive it i cant win

[Deleted]

You should probably question why they didn't fail those items on the first test, especially since it's only been 7 days.

You're likely to get the "an MoT is only a snapshot of the car's condition, these parts have failed since the last test" speech. It's very odd that items should fail in such a short period of time, especially if there were no advisories on said items.

I expect you'll have to fix the fails and try again :/

[Copey]

that does sound a bit off to be honest! but i guess it depends on who the tester was

a lot of things in an MOT come down to the MOTers descretion, so if it was a different tester the 2nd time round this coule explain why it failed on different things

but on the other hand if it was the same tester i would be tempted to get in touch with trading standards and let them know whats happened, that or go back to the garage and mention trading standards, sometimes makes them buck up! but others just ignore it

[Minikidx14]

It was the same tester. One of the things was a insecure fuel pump. its cabletied down in the boot. its loose but not going anywhere, If they told me the 1st time i could of fixed it in 2 mins

[Minikidx14]

And i don't want to keep going back and it failing on more everytime

[jasonb360]

maybe he didnt notice the fuel pump in the boot the first time... btw, cable tying the pump which carries flammable liquid and has plugs that can short and make sparks if rattled around against bodywork is a bad idea... you shouldn't have it like that regardless, especially if you like the car.

My cav has the fuel pump bolted to the boot floor as I haven't yet had time to put it where I want it... doesn't mean I'd let it rattle around though

Best of luck with the MOT - sometimes garages can pull a fast one but other times they may have made a genuine oversight...

[Minikidx14]

Apr 6, 2011 15:44:37 GMT jasonb360 said:

maybe he didnt notice the fuel pump in the boot the first time... btw, cable tying the pump which carries flammable liquid and has plugs that can short and make sparks if rattled around against bodywork is a bad idea... you shouldn't have it like that regardless, especially if you like the car.

My cav has the fuel pump bolted to the boot floor as I haven't yet had time to put it where I want it... doesn't mean I'd let it rattle around though

Best of luck with the MOT - sometimes garages can pull a fast one but other times they may have made a genuine oversight...

I know it isnt a great idea but was only tempery till I got my new tank (came when I was at mot station actualy ) If they failed it 1st time it wouldnt of been a problem but he was trying to tell me it wasnt there before (how did I drive there with out a fuel pump then?) I'm just off because I have to pay for another test when they didnt notice something the 1st time.

And it wasnt just the fuel pump.. they also didnt fail the following the 1st time...
cv joint gaiter insecurly mounted
front brakes imbalenced
parking brake eficiency below requirements
both rear brake little or no effort

[stealthstylz]

What did it fail on the first time?

Matt

[automatic]

If it failed on brakes first time the system wont allow a partial retest so they have to do a full test.

[chairchild]

If it's been 10 days (I think?) then they do have to have a total retest, less than that, and you don't need to pay for another test - All you should pay for, is their time to retest. Checking things like the fuel pump you mentioned, dead bulbs, tyres, etc, only need a glance, and so they're not technically chargeable.

Things like testing the brakes take a few mins, and they sometimes charge for half an hour of labour, or less.

And a CV gaitor held on with plastic cable-ties IS acceptable!

[hardtop]

hmm my usual garage will retest all the lights and maybe the wipers/washers and horn on a retest, then look at the original fails, which i think is quite acceptable,

a garage will usually limit a restest to 15 mins, used to be 10 under the old rules.

i guess they could be quiet, how long was the retest, another 45 mins?

also an insecure cv gaiter was a advisory for me 2 months ago as well, and that can be cable tied as suggested above

[froggy]

If I'm reading this right it passed the brake test first time but failed on other items I.e brake pipe , wheel bearing etc or any item which would mean a brake test being carried out on re test .


I would ask to see the brake figures from the previous test for comparison . If you just scraped through last time you should have it as an advisory .

What did it fail on originally ?

[spacekadett]

Not putting up the original fail items isn't giving people the whole story is it? say for example your failure list included a leaking brake pipe and a poor pedal the brakes wouldn't be roller tested on the initial test, so would have to be on retest, hence the faults coming to light then. And a gaiter clip can pop at any time, especially if you're messing about in the vicinity replacing bearings and balljoint. Fair play on the fuel pump but you're implying the tester hasn't done his job properly when perhaps he has.

[spunkymonkey]

Apr 6, 2011 22:24:27 GMT spacekadett said:

Not putting up the original fail items isn't giving people the whole story is it? say for example your failure list included a leaking brake pipe and a poor pedal the brakes wouldn't be roller tested on the initial test, so would have to be on retest, hence the faults coming to light then. And a gaiter clip can pop at any time, especially if you're messing about in the vicinity replacing bearings and balljoint. Fair play on the fuel pump but you're implying the tester hasn't done his job properly when perhaps he has.

This.

For a retest they have to test the failed items and any other items that might have been affected by the repairs. So, for example, if your brakes were ok on the first test but you had to replace a road spring then they would need to retest the brakes if the spring replacement would have involved disconnecting a calliper. Without knowing what the original fails were there's no way of knowing how they might relate to the new ones.

Also, the VOSA rules are quite clear that, if extra faults are found during a retest (even a partial one) then the car fails. That's not the tester's decision, it's the rules of the MOT scheme.

For the fuel pump a securely tie-wrapped pump would pass without a problem - the fail is for being insecure, not for how it's secured. But have you had something in the boot that's knocked it and loosened the ties in the meantime?

Finally, you really shouldn't need to "get to a rolling road" to set a carb up to MOT standards but, if it's a pre-booked appointment for work to rectify an MOT fault (ie: booked in to get the emissions sorted, not to have it race tuned) then you're allowed to drive to it without MOT.

Just be aware that the inefficient handbrake and low effort from the rear brakes are very likely to classify the car as in a dangerous condition if you're pulled over or anything happens. Even if where there's an exemption from MOT (to get work done etc) it's still an offence to drive a car in a dangerous state!



edited to add: Looking at your sig block, is the the Riley or the XR3i? If it's the Riley then there's no emissions apart from a visual smoke test and, if it's the XR3i then there isn't a carb to set up (clue's in the "i" )

[Minikidx14]

Its not a problem about what it failed on, its the princable. If it passed 1st time and hadnt changed it should pass again a week later (unless it did change) I'm nor sure about the gaiter but i know for a fact that the pump was exactly the same.
1st it failed on

side lights wrong colour (yellow which i thought you were alowed?)
exhaust emissions
exhaust noise
front brake hoses with insufisient room to move (didnt change anything about them for retest, Looked fine to me)
front brake pipe leaking
track rod end locking device
front balljoint
front wheel bearing
rear springs cut
stearing wheel in condition that hampers control
brake pedal spongey (were fine after a drive home)

Then the second time it failed on..

fuel pump insecure
cv joint gaiter insecurly mounted
front brakes imbalenced
parking brake eficiency below requirements
both rear brake little or no effort
front and rear brake pipes inadequately clipped

[Minikidx14]

Apr 6, 2011 22:50:37 GMT spunkymonkey said:

Apr 6, 2011 22:24:27 GMT spacekadett said:

Not putting up the original fail items isn't giving people the whole story is it? say for example your failure list included a leaking brake pipe and a poor pedal the brakes wouldn't be roller tested on the initial test, so would have to be on retest, hence the faults coming to light then. And a gaiter clip can pop at any time, especially if you're messing about in the vicinity replacing bearings and balljoint. Fair play on the fuel pump but you're implying the tester hasn't done his job properly when perhaps he has.

This.

For a retest they have to test the failed items and any other items that might have been affected by the repairs. So, for example, if your brakes were ok on the first test but you had to replace a road spring then they would need to retest the brakes if the spring replacement would have involved disconnecting a calliper. Without knowing what the original fails were there's no way of knowing how they might relate to the new ones.

Also, the VOSA rules are quite clear that, if extra faults are found during a retest (even a partial one) then the car fails. That's not the tester's decision, it's the rules of the MOT scheme. This is the answer I was looking for, I couldnt find anything on vosa or googleFor the fuel pump a securely tie-wrapped pump would pass without a problem - the fail is for being insecure, not for how it's secured. But have you had something in the boot that's knocked it and loosened the ties in the meantime?

Finally, you really shouldn't need to "get to a rolling road" to set a carb up to MOT standards but, if it's a pre-booked appointment for work to rectify an MOT fault (ie: booked in to get the emissions sorted, not to have it race tuned) then you're allowed to drive to it without MOT.

Just be aware that the inefficient handbrake and low effort from the rear brakes are very likely to classify the car as in a dangerous condition if you're pulled over or anything happens. Even if where there's an exemption from MOT (to get work done etc) it's still an offence to drive a car in a dangerous state!

The rolling road will be the last thing I do so the brakes will be fixed
edited to add: Looking at your sig block, is the the Riley or the XR3i? If it's the Riley then there's no emissions apart from a visual smoke test and, if it's the XR3i then there isn't a carb to set up (clue's in the "i" )

Its the xr3i but its now fitted with a carb'ed zetec.

[beany]

well if a brake pipes leaking then a brake test will be needed on retest, they may not have been tested if they were leaking originally. cv could've got caught doing the wheel bearing, it still would've failed anyway and had to pay again due to emissions, so all your moaning about is your cable tie being a bit loose???

[Minikidx14]

Apr 6, 2011 23:02:44 GMT beany said:

well if a brake pipes leaking then a brake test will be needed on retest, they may not have been tested if they were leaking originally. cv could've got caught doing the wheel bearing, it still would've failed anyway and had to pay again due to emissions, so all your moaning about is your cable tie being a bit loose???

If you read the post i just wrote it says its not about the items that failed. I wanted to know if an mot tester is alowed to fail a car on more things then that was originaly wrong.

Also the brakes were tested the 1st time and were fine. I cant see how stoping a leak (doing up one nut) could make the brakes worse though

[scaryoldcortina]

Because it was leaking, they didn't roller test the brakes. This is standard practice, VOSA approved....

Also, just to clarify a few points about retests.... you can only have a partial retest on certain fail items and only then by the same tester and within ONE working day if you took the car away to be fixed. (10 if it stays at the test station). All other retests are a FULL retest on everything, regardless of whether the garage decides to charge for it or not.