1991 VW Polo CL - Cat B - Bean Tins...

[Tim]

Hey up

I've asked a few questions about this car, so thought it would be useful to pull things together in a rides thread:

Pictures are click for bigger...

91 Polo Hatch (Breadvan), with the 1272 AAV engine.





Picked it up last year from here, and ran around in it for a year, including a couple of loaded up weekends away mountain biking - the little 1.3 engine handled it fine.

Had a new fuel tank (split at filler join) and a wheel bearing in this time.

But...started to misfire badly on the last trip away. Got it home but it would barely idle and would stall when you came of the throttle from speed (like when braking coming up to a roundabout).

Couldnt find anything obvious, so after a fashion we have taken it off the road to sort the engine issues out, sort out some minor bodywork issues and generally just give it a spruce up...and then the RR ethos will be applied (wheels are ready for paint, springs are cheap and easy).

So far:

• Oil Change
  
• Oil Filter
  
• Plugs
  
• Leads checked against a known good set
  
• Coil (although original ignition module thing thats bolted to it)
  
• Dizi Cap
  
• Rotor Arm
  
• Compression tested - ~180psi in each cylinder
  

This didn't fix the misfire...then we found a split in the vacuum hose off of the throttle body THAT fixed the misfire...briefly

Also found that the crankcase ventilation pipe at the back had disintegrated/been eaten by something, so replaced that.

ALSO In the meantime the car had developed a really erratic and high idle. When the engine was hot this would turn into a rythmic cycle of revving hard and then almost stalling, and then revving itself again...pretty much undriveable and not safe to drive anyway as it would fight against the brakes!

Then found that in replacing the crankcase ventilation pipe, I'd not noticed the new one is slightly different and sits higher, and managed to crimp it slightly on fitting the air filter assembly...which pressurised the crankcase and blew the front oil seal - and lost a sumps worth of oil in 6 miles (no doubt annoying the neighbours).

So now it's had (which was a mission in itself as the crankshaft pulley bolt refused to budge until I applied the scaffold pole of OTT):

• Cambelt
  
• Water Pump
  
• Oil Seal
  
• Temp Sender (thought it was causing the idling problem)
  

Now its back together and on its wheels, fresh oil, fresh coolant. Started first time, still idling badly, sounds like its misfiring slightly, and as soon as it gets hot, the rythmic revving is still there. Starts and runs, but rough as hell.

At a loss now, and fed up - spent all of yesterday putting it back together and if anything its worse :-( The timing should be spot on - I was very careful not to lose the cam/crank orientation and the timing marks are correctly aligned and the belt tensioned to spec.

Culprits could be:

• Throttle body itself, or the injector
  
• Another vacuum leak.
  
• Distributor/timing - could be not advancing correctly?
  
• Temp sender related
  
• ECU
  
• Lambda?
  

Unplugging the temp sender makes the revs rise, so it is doing something.

So its kind of ground to halt as i'm unwilling to keep throwing new part/money at it without diagnosing the issue.

Throwing it to the floor...does anybody have a clue?

Cheers

Tim


The engine in question (the cold weather/hot air feed has since been junked)

[mk2polobloke]

Mmm, looks like you've checked most of the obvious things Tim.
However, double check the plug leads, run the engine in the dark and make sure they're not shorting out as the engine moves in the bay.
Lead orientation? Double check again, it's really easy to get them mixed up.
Check the brake servo hose hasn't worn through causing a vacuum leak.
The hall sender is a known weak point on these, though it normally fails totally and the engine won't start at all.
Remove the dizzy cap and check the inside of it. Hopefully you should see nice clean evenly marked contacts and rotor arm. It's not unknown for new ones to be poorly made and fail miserably.

Good luck and hope this helps.
Cheers,
Richard.

[kingsmith]

is this injection then??? sounds like it if so check the idle control valve sounds like its not working causing the werid idle problems they can stick..

even had one of these few yrs ago cracking car but never touched any thing on the engine side was a sweet runner....

if not injection then well foget what i put..

hope helps??

[Tim]

Single point injection.

Will check for shorting - have done so previously, but can't hurt to check twice.

Idle control makes sense - would that explain the mental idle when it's hot?

Dizzy/rotor arm contacts seem fine

[murran]

have you set the dizzy/ignition timing? as you can adjust it on the three allen key bolts holding the dizzy on slacken them off and rotate it.

come to think of it did you mark it before you fiet took it off?

[bigburt]

Hi Tim, i have more experience with the GT models but i guess they will be quite similar .

Is the temp sender a genuine VW ? Well worth the money around £16.
Hall sender failure is not uncommon.
Bad earthing in the engine bay causes all sorts of problems .
I presume you have had a look on club polo there is a lot of information regarding this in the faq sections .

Good luck and your welcome to pm me for more info Mark

[Tim]

Jul 4, 2011 18:48:52 GMT murran said:

have you set the dizzy/ignition timing? as you can adjust it on the three allen key bolts holding the dizzy on slacken them off and rotate it.

come to think of it did you mark it before you fiet took it off?

Not touched any bolts on the dizzy itself.

The dizzy cap only goes on one way, so it shouldn't be that...should it?

[Tim]

Jul 4, 2011 20:40:28 GMT bigburt said:

Hi Tim, I have more experience with the GT models but I guess they will be quite similar .

Is the temp sender a genuine VW ? Well worth the money around £16.
Hall sender failure is not uncommon.
Bad earthing in the engine bay causes all sorts of problems .
I presume you have had a look on club polo there is a lot of information regarding this in the faq sections .

Good luck and your welcome to pm me for more info Mark

Temp sender was from local parts place, so not a genuine item. Will bear it in mind.

Hall sender has cropped up a few times. Doesnt appear to be trivial to replace either. How do you diagnose this?

Bad earth was discussed tonight. I cant see anything obvious though.

Cheers for help all. Much appreciated.

Cheers

Tim

[Tim]

The AAV does not have an Idle Control Valve either, so thats something else potentially obvious that can be discounted.

Someone on Polo 3 has mentioned that the Throttle Potentiometer may be the causeas well...

I'm at the point of just taking it to the garage.

[Tim]

Always seems a bit pathetic that I'm struggling with basics on an early 90's shopping car, whilst others on here build stuff from scratch in an afternoon :-)

Anyway...fiddled a bit more with the car today :-)

Took the top of the injector off and cleaned the spring and diaphragm with carb cleaner, and emptied a load of cleaner into the throttle body itself whilst opening the butterfly with the engine running. Seems to have sorted a load of the bad running issues.

Idle still wobbles a bit, but will do for now, and more importantly the hot running issue has gone completely.

Bigger problem is that the throttle 'sticks' open slightly. I'm hoping its the throttle position sensor, but worried its the potentiometer...which will be £ and an annoying job.

Put it all back together anyway :-)

Sanded down an arch, and primed roughly - needs rubbing down again anyway so just got some paint on for now,

Needed to do some important things, so instead I buggered around removing the bump strips instead (spot the spatula!), although I need to get the horrid glue off (sticky stuff remover ahoy).

Found some more crustyness under badges on boot lid, but hopefully should clean up with a quick sand and blow-over.

Need to get hold of some rubber bungs for the trim holes in the bootlid and arches.

But it's back together now and drives, 'just' needs: Some paint, some sanding, some t-cut, a bloody good valet, fix the blowing exhaust (that was new for the MOT and has done about 20 miles!)...then paint the alloys, get some tyres, get and fit lowering springs and remove all the stickers and any leftover tat - simple and clean hopefully,

Oh and sort some rattly/broken interior trim

Should be a tidy little run around then :-)

[Tim]

Right

I sorted out all the engine issues.

Sprayed the wing

Prepped the wheels

Bought all the new suspension parts...

2nd proper journey out today after getting it back on road after a few months

Got hit hard from behind by a Seat Alhambra whilst in traffic. Rear panel pushed in, tailgate crushed, boot floor distorted spare wheel is now somewhat 'integrated', exhaust dislodged, bumper mounts broken.

Initially looks like it will be a Cat C Total Loss :-(

Didnt even unpack the new parts!

Pretty fed up :-(

It doesn't look too bad at first glance, until you realise all the new shapes that have appeared in the boot. The rear wings, surprisingly, look fine though, although there are a few 'wiggles' in some of the window trim lines - although this may just be the trim itself.

[Tim]

Written off.

Insurance going through but payout will only cover good market value and nowt else.

I know it was 'only' an old polo and the pics above don't make it look much, but I put a lot of time and effort (and money) into it (none of which is obvious as it was all mechanical).

I feel nauseous thinking about the whole thing. Complete waste of my time and money.

No point spending time and money re-shelling it as its not really worth the effort - its never going to be anything other than what it is.

I cant be bothered any more. No point doing a project unless its something worthwhile, and I can't afford anything worthwhile.

So i'm out for the forseeable future.

Get your car insurance 'agreed value' straight away if you put any time and money into it

[welder]

curse word news mate. At least you're ok. Hunt around and you'll find something that takes your fancy.

[r1ch130]

Gutted for ya buddy! I remember when my old Cav was stolen back in 04, I didn't even get a pay out cos they put it down to being my fault (long story).

Crying shame when you've put so much time and effort into a project, then something like this happens. It's demoralizing, but chin up, the next project may be just around the corner, another Polo could be waiting for you to go get it.

You never know, may turn out better in the end. Think positive

[maxkia]

Sorry about that mate i hate it when you put time and effort into a car only to have it destroyed or stolen, personally had a 89 2.0gsi belmont idiot hit me from behind so hard pushed the car 5 metres didnt look so bad until i walked around the front of the car to see a pool of oil, engine mountings broke with the impact dropping the sump onto a paver and destroying the bottom end. It almost seems if you love your car the accident fairies come and paint a giant bulls eye on it.

[mk2polobloke]

Really sorry for you Tim. Glad you're ok mate.
Obviously you'll be feeling really peed off at the moment, but any car you get is only gonna be what it is, they are hardly ever financially worth doing unless it's a rare exotic. It's all part of the fun doing up these run of the mill cars.
Chin up and good luck Tim,
Cheers,
Richard.

[oli8925]

Feel sorry for you, must be so gutting take a little while out from fiddling with cars, pretty soon you'll find yourself itching to tinker again with renewed enthusiasm.

[Corbs]

So sorry to hear about this mate. I hope you don't see all your time as wasted, hopefully you got useful practice and experience out of it to use in the next project.

[retrowagen1234]

ahhh curse word man thats not good Same thing happened to me in my old mk2 saloon.


One owner car, Spent ages polishing it , tidying out all the old man smell and making it a damn nice car.
Drove it to santa pod only for my mate who was following me to rearend me at the crossroads outside santapod

Pushed the boot in and distorted the car so much that the headlining dropped..

Drove home still though after we pulled the rear arch off the tyre.

The side window fell out the next morning when i shut the door though



Theres a few other polos for sale on here atm.. Cheap too...

[Tim]

Cheers guys.

Not too fussed about another polo. Probably get something a bit more modern for the time being and take stock - want to save for something special in the future.

Fancy something fun next - been looking at 306 S16/GTI-6/Rallye as a practical thing thats still a laugh.