Looking for some help to 'Wake the car up'

[1960zody]

Kind of a begging letter here…

I have this


Which I’ve been rebuilding since 2009, thanks to Johnny69 the body is looking less rust ridden than it did, so it’s coming along.
It is fitted with this - A 289 Small Block



Although it doesn’t look quite that nice at the moment.

The engine hasn’t run for about four years and needs coaxing back to life and the valve lash setting and this is where the problem comes.
I’m big enough to recognise when I’m out of my depth, I’ve managed to just about complete the rewire starting from no knowledge at all, but I’m not sure that I trust myself to do the engine properly and not end up with a pile of shrapnel in the sump.

So here’s the begging bit.

Is there anyone out in RR Land who fancies an afternoon up to their armpits in a Ford small block while I assist and learn?
I can’t offer a briefcase of money or a bag of gold bars, but I’ll happily buy beers and burgers when it’s done and you’ll get that glow of pleasure knowing you helped someone learn something and moved a gasser closer to being on the road.

The car is in Abbey Wood SE London if there’s anyone interested.

Cheers

Steve

[jrevillug]

I'd be more than happy to help.

I will confess that I haven't done anything to a smallblock, but I've been mucking about with engines for years now, and feel confident in my ability to work on most engines with distributors and carbs (although Ferrari engines, maybe not so much...). Last time I was at Area 52 for the weekend I repaired the ignition on Ben711200's Fiesta, then set the timing and the valve clearances. Ok, so it's much smaller, but the principles are the same. Over a few previous visits to A52 I got a Ford Essex running, and helped get a couple of other thing going, including a pair of a-series engines that had stood for ~20 years.

What had been done to the engine before the lay-up? Was it freshly built and not run, was it just run in, or was it a used engine?

Has it been stood outside or inside?

Does it have electronic ignition or points? If points then I'd suggest getting hold of a replacement set just in case.

Have you tried turning it over at all?

And what do you have in the way of tools?

In the mean time, whip the spark plugs out and chuck a teaspoonful (ish) of oil down each bore before replacing the plugs. A day or so later (to give the oil a chance to migrate to the piston rings) put a spanner (or socket) on the crank pully and see if it will turn over by hand.

EDIT to say - BTW, the gasser looks awesome.

[akku]

that's an awesome looking car.

Sorry I'm not more local.

[1960zody]

Thanks, you a gent...
The engine hasn't run since the head gasket was done after it blew on the way back from the supernats, The guy who did the chassis work to put the straight tube on it couldn't get it to run after it fired up.
My wife bought me an MSD distributor and 6-AL setup as a christmas present and I fitted that and had it running really badly (sounded lie a bag of spanners) a few months after I got it back.
Last time I was in the garage a few months back I could turn it over by hand with the plugs out, so it wasn't siezed. (Hopefully nothing has changed there).
I've got a reasonable selection of tools, not expensive stuff but useable and anything I haven't got is only a shop away...

[akku]

just go though it systematically. Start at the begining and work along.

get the base timing, make sure thats right. make sure there are no vacuum leaks. Check the mechanical and vacuum advances. check the leads are all good. check the plugs are gapped right and in clean condition. recheck the timing. check the fuel is getting through OK, replace fuel filter, clean carb, check mixture and idle speed, etc. check timing.

if its non-stock cam and other stuff its often going to be a time-by-ear job but start at factory spec and tweak from there.

most (or at least many) times I've had bad running its been timing related. then check fuel issues.

These are simple beasts.

[1960zody]

It's funny you mention the cam Ali,
That was the reason that the chassis builder couldn't get it running initially.
Although it's a 289, which was literally gas axed out of a Mercury Cougar (While the front was held up with a forklift), it has a 351 cam in it.
The firing sequence is completely different between the two.
The 289 is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
The 351 is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
That took Jon and I almost a day to figure out.
I have no idea why one of the previous owners put that cam in.
Maybe he was the one who left a woodworking chisel under the intake manifold.
That appeared when the gasket was being done...

I'm hoping that this will be a simple job with someone who is more 'Confident' in their abilities than I am.

[skinnylew]

Ooo that looks like it's gonna be a beauty. I'm local (and work in Abbeywood...ish) but can't help unfortunately well I can make tea, pass spanners and look at things if thats required lol

[ben711200]

Jul 20, 2011 13:51:49 GMT jrevillug said:

words:D

I'd happily let James at any of my cars (and indeed, I have). He's a good teacher, too

[akku]

swapping the firing order seems to be a recipe for pain!

[1960zody]

It definately caused some headaches for Jon and I.
The Small Blocks are bascically the same engine other than the Windsor V Cleveland thing.
No-one has been able to suggest any performance advantage of filling a 351 cam in a 289 version, so I'm assuming, based on the chisel episode, that whoever did it just used whatever he had lying around.
Sinec the engine has just yanked out of the Cougar and put in the Zody I have no knowledge of what it's like intrenally.
It did run when Jon and I were fiddling with it, but we couldn't get the valve lash set and get it to be quiet.
I'm hoping that is all that will need to be done.
This weekend I'll fit the new starter solenoid and hook the alternator up and then I should be ready for James... :-)
When that time cones, anyone who wants to drop by to point and encourage is very welcome... :-)

[akku]

On Chevy engines there is some power claimed to be had by swapping the firing order of #5 and #7 pot. (IIRC). I've seen dyno tests which "prove" this. But then why doesn't everybody do that?

Perhaps your man thought similar with the Ford.

But probably he had the cam and thought it would work - it probably has slightly higher lift than a stock 302 cam.

WHo knows why people do this stuff. Thats part of the fun of owning old cars.

[jrevillug]

Jul 21, 2011 7:55:44 GMT 1960zody said:

It definately caused some headaches for Jon and I.
The Small Blocks are bascically the same engine other than the Windsor V Cleveland thing.
No-one has been able to suggest any performance advantage of filling a 351 cam in a 289 version, so I'm assuming, based on the chisel episode, that whoever did it just used whatever he had lying around.
Sinec the engine has just yanked out of the Cougar and put in the Zody I have no knowledge of what it's like intrenally.
It did run when Jon and I were fiddling with it, but we couldn't get the valve lash set and get it to be quiet.
I'm hoping that is all that will need to be done.
This weekend I'll fit the new starter solenoid and hook the alternator up and then I should be ready for James... :-)
When that time cones, anyone who wants to drop by to point and encourage is very welcome... :-)

Feel free to drop me a PM to organise something. I'm away the next couple of weekends, but am free during the week - failing that, mid-august could be do-able.

Let me know when you're around and I'm sure we can sort something out.

[sheffieldcortinacentre]

if the cam is opening the valves in a different order then surely the pistons won't match the fireing order?

[will]

Jul 25, 2011 23:24:48 GMT sheffieldcortinacentre said:

if the cam is opening the valves in a different order then surely the pistons won't match the fireing order?

Can't quite get me head round that one either

I'm local and happy to make tea and pass spanners. Mech knowledge on engines ain't great though can show keenness and support for this awesome car.

[kapri]

It was running fine on the other cam though at one stage wasn't it ? Get some fresh fuel as well ,unleaded doesn't last long sat about.

[1960zody]

The cam has been in there since I bought the car, it ran well for a thousand or so miles, including a trip to Le Mans (Although that didn't go 100% perfectloy, as anyone who read the R&S thread will know).
I'm guessing, so far as the valve vs pistion thing that, so long as the pistion is moving in the right direction it's just a question of what, if any valve is open.

I've just done another bit of googling and it appears that they are interchangable, it's all to do with Vibration...

A guy on the Ford Muscle forum says...
The reason Ford went to the 1-3 firing order was simply to reduce the load on the #1 main as the "older 1-5 firing order Hammered the first main bearing. I run a 351 firing order cam in the 65 Mustang. Having said that, I will also say that the firing order alone wil not increase HP! If you have torn down many 260-289-early 302's you will notice that the majority of main bearing wear is concentrated on #1. Mike them and you will know. The additional mass of the clutch or the torque converter ect "absorbs" the firing order better in the rear of the engine than it does in the front . Durability not power.

Since it worked so well in the 351 application, they swapped the timing in the later 302/5.0 as well.