Welded diffs? Real world experience please!

[Tom Majeure]

I'm nearing the end of rebuilding a Suzuki Vitara and am seriously considering welding the rear diff up. Its been built as an off road vehicle but I want to be able to drive it to and from pay n play/green laning. I've read all about the pros and cons, but what I REALLY want to hear is has any actually lived with one. As many of you will know, what is discussed on the internet and what happens IRL can sometimes be very different!!

Is the understeer/oversteer really that bad when it gets wet? Is reversing into parking spaces impossible. I'm not to fussed about issues with wear and tear, axles and tyres are cheap from the scrappers.

Discuss

[MaDSeB]

I'm my humble opinion, ive had welded diffs in both my volvos. and also plan to drop one in the starlet.
the only bad expierience ive had is when one gave way (second hand diff not very well welded) and it stranded me at a petrol station, with the transmission completely locked up.
other than that, the back wheels tend to skip when reverse parking, and they can push on a bit. although not as bad as people make out.
if you drive the car sensibly and prepare yourself, youl have no problems.

[steveday]

^ This,
Running a welder in my 360, have been for a couple of months now and seriously haven't struggled at all. If you respect it in the rain, you'll be fine, but go too hard and you will lose it.
Car parks just turn into a slightly different world, usually takes me a bit more effort to force it into a space, but its still not hard at all, on fresh tarmac at low speeds the inside wheel locking up screams a bit, so you get the occasional funny look. Other than this i can personally say its had no detrimental effect whatsoever.

[ditchdigger]

What I have seen with welded diffs is the opposite of these two gents. An E21 that understeered like crazy when being driven mildly , wore out the rear tires in a matter of months and made awful scrubbing noises in parking lots. It was a lot of fun when driven spiritedly but made the trip to work or to the shops unpleasant.

With 4X4's it is so common that it is unusual to see an XJ Cherokee or toyota pickup without a "Lincoln Locker" welded diff. The noise they make with giant tires in parking lots is ridiculous. At full lock on the steering wheel the trucks lurch around corners as each of the wheels fight the others for speed. I am told they can be a real handfull.

I know first hand that a welded diff in a FWD VW will break inner CV joints any time the car is in reverse with the steering wheel turned. It was a race car that went through 10 axles in one short season.

[rob0r]

I wouldn't have anything else in a BMW, I used to commute 100 miles a day with a welder. I'd say something else was wrong on that e21, my e21 with a heavier m50 lump handles fantastically. As your in the states I'd say that e21 has a lighter 4 pot which should have even less understeer.

That said I'm not brave enough to run them on my land rovers in fear of destroying the transmission or halfshafts.

[povey]

I had a welded diff in my Volvo 340 before I moved to the escort ladder bar setup and to be honest it was a bit hairy lol great fun but ment you had to have your wits about you if there was a hint of rain, or accelerating hastily or breaking hard, lol car parks were fun too especially multi story ( the car was very low on minilights to) so it scraped on the way up ramps both front and rear end, and the back kinda squeaked, skipped around the corners at low speed making lots of funny noises so EVERYONE in the carpark looks. But when the time came to run the Renault cleo 16v supercharged lump utricle last to long. Hope this helps :-D

[povey]

It didn't#

[Robinxr4i]

I've lived with welded diffs in a few cars (318 E30, Volvo 360, Vauxhall Omega and 3 Sierras) all of which were used as daily drives. Personally I love them, so much so, I want to swap the LSD in my current 535 for a welded diff. They are predictable and require no special oil or maintenance.

Don't listen to the haters! You can reverse park, turn corners, drive in the wet, all without killing Nuns or Kittens. Plus it isn't half as punishing on the drivetrain as you'd expect.

Yes there are cons: tyre consumption is increase, understeer is slightly worst, if you drive hard in the wet you will be all over the place and increased wear/tear on bushes ect. However the advantages IMO out weigh the negatives.

I'm a little paranoid about them breaking (never happened to me, but you do hear horror stories) so when I get a diff welded, I always try and get them plated. Like this one......

[tomti]

i run a welder in my e36 daily.

Yes you notice it on tighter corners but you get used to it.

I love the way people stare in bemusement as the wheels skip and squeal when I'm in sainsburys car park.

It can be a bit understeery but not so much that you notice. Just turn the steering wheel another 2 degrees.

And i have never, ever lost the back end in the rain when i wasn't expecting it and i run 50-55psi in my back tyres most of the time, and i drive, lets say, a bit spiritedly.

I have done 140mph on a welded diff and it didn't kill me in the slightest.

I have been round Lydden Hill circuit with a welded diff and it didn't kill me.

If anything i think it helps you power out of the corners better.

Man up and do it. If you don't like it after a month, buy another standard diff.

[tomti]

Oh, and just to add i didn't get stuck in the snow once last year

[speedy88]

The snow is another reason why I want to do it to mine Another job to get around to this winter!

[avengertec]

if you have free wheeling front hubs why not weld the front diff for off road use then switch the hubs to free wheel when using on the road
i wouldnt recomend using a welded diff on road front or rear

[Ratdat]

The only welded diff I have run on the street was in my S13. From a driving perspective, I'd say no problem. I was lively in the wet but not uncontrollable in the slightest. Understeer wasn't really much of an issue. You would only feel it pushing on if you gave it throttle on a tight turn like a mini roundabout. Tyres weren't an issue simply because I was drifting it at the time so it never had the same tyres on it from one week to the next! It did put a massive amount of wear on the CV joints in a very short period of time so I would expect a much reduced life from them. After just three months they had a lot of play in them.

However, despite them being okay to drive with on the road, I doubt i would do it now. Why? If you were unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident where someone gets seriously hurt or killed and the law find you have a shonky welded diff, you are gonna get utterly bummed by the law. Regardless of wether it's a factor or not. These days, there has to be a scapegoat in any accident and if your car is in any way dodgy in the eyes of the law, it's gonna be you.

Others may be quite happy to take their chances. Fair enough, but it's something to consider. I value my freedom and driving licence too much!

[gouldygtr]

i had a 2 way locked diff (same as welded) in my 380bhp skyline, it went sideways instantly but wasnt too bad normal driving, however when pulling out of junctions and tight turn it did tear up the tyres a bit

[Tom Majeure]

Cheers Guys!!

I think i'm going to leap in and do it!! Just need to find where I've left me slide hammer and get on with it

[lolface]

It was a love/hate relationship with mine: with a well worn 4 paddle clutch&light flywheel and 7j tyres it was a fappin nightmare driving sensibly as a daily, would never have one again with that configuration in a road car.
However, it got me out of a snowed-up layby one night, and the predictability of the handling was amazing fun.
Went back to an open as it was too tempting to drive like a tard, and now I'm missing the welder ;D.

[The Doctor]

and the tirewear isn't that bad. I just swapped my rear tires on the Chaser after 30.000 km.
That's with -3 degrees of camber due to lowering, loads of toe in (lowering again ) ánd a welder

[Butterz]

Still warm

[AB car pix]

If you aren't a total retard you'll be perfectly fine with one.... and it will make your car unmeasurably more awesome.

I'm so tempted to replace my road Saph Cossie's diff with one, but I know that me + 357BHP + a welder = jail

[dude]

Sorry for the offtopic - abcarpix - when are we seeing a (or preferably several) readers rides thread from you? ;D
I was an avid reader (and a sporadic poster) on the old trampdrift forum, and a big fan of your sierra, if it's the one jeek (?) built? Looks awesome, and your other projects sounds interesting too


Edit - ON topic, i've run welded diffs in a few different cars, and have come to the conclusion that it's quite a bit more noticeable in live axle cars, and can be quite an annoyance if you've got wide and sticky rear tyres, especially with stiff bushings. Still very driveable, and won't kill nuns and kittens etc.
I would think twice doing it to a 4x4 if it does more miles on the road than off.