Jowey
Part of things
Posts: 933
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Apr 22, 2012 14:20:52 GMT
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Also keep your car clean a dirty car uses more fuel as it pushes through the air than a clean one. -Clean and then Wax the curse word out of your car, a slippery car is an aerodynamic car The difference caused by keeping the car clean will be absolutely negligible. The drag caused by the shape of the car will be orders of magnitude greater than the skin friction drag. They obviously waste gallons of water cleaning the planes at the airport for no reason then. The difference is very marginal, but Air will still pass over a car more efficiently if it is clean. still convinced Clean, lowered and running moondisk's is the key to good fuel economy.
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2000 Mercedes E55 //AMG 1998 Alfa Reomeo GTV 24v 1997 Alfa Romeo Spider 16v 1996 Alfa Romeo Spider 16v 1996 Suzki Swift 1.0 GLS
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Apr 22, 2012 14:58:23 GMT
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Tbf, I think they wash planes cos you'd probably be a bit worried getting on a filthy looking plane. You'd be better off going for a dump before setting off.
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I've got Rovers.
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Apr 22, 2012 15:08:26 GMT
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The difference caused by keeping the car clean will be absolutely negligible. The drag caused by the shape of the car will be orders of magnitude greater than the skin friction drag. They obviously waste gallons of water cleaning the planes at the airport for no reason then. The difference is very marginal, but Air will still pass over a car more efficiently if it is clean. still convinced Clean, lowered and running moondisk's is the key to good fuel economy. Does your car do 3-400mph? Skin friction drag increases with the square of velocity; while it's an important factor at the speeds you're doing in an aircraft, at 70mph the effect will be negligible compared to the drag caused by the shape of the car, openings, grill, gap under the car, wheel arches, things under the car protruding into the airflow, wing mirrors, aerial...
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1989 Peugeot 205. You know, the one that was parked in a ditch on the campsite at RRG'17... the glass is always full. but the ratio of air to water may vary.
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Apr 22, 2012 15:48:20 GMT
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I'd imagine a large chunk of the reason for cleaning planes is also because they've got a company name written down the side of them in giant letters, and said company probably wouldn't like it to be covered in curse word. I'd have thought keeping it clean helps reduce the formation of ice too.
As for a car, I can't imagine it making a noticeable difference unless there's big knobbly lumps of mud on the car, and then the weight will also effect things. That said, it doesn't hurt to keep it clean, it's kind of like clearing out a few drinks bottles from your boot, ok, the weight difference is seriously unlikely to be noticed, but it's still not a bad idea.
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Last Edit: Apr 22, 2012 15:49:02 GMT by RobinJI
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Jowey
Part of things
Posts: 933
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Apr 22, 2012 15:50:38 GMT
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point taken.
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Last Edit: Apr 22, 2012 15:52:00 GMT by Jowey
2000 Mercedes E55 //AMG 1998 Alfa Reomeo GTV 24v 1997 Alfa Romeo Spider 16v 1996 Alfa Romeo Spider 16v 1996 Suzki Swift 1.0 GLS
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Apr 22, 2012 17:09:42 GMT
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I've been over this quite a lot recently with customers who sold thier old cars and bought newer more efficient cars only to have larger repair bills come breakdown time (mainly the £35 code read when ever something goes wronge), the last one was a £150 service compaired to his old £50 service on the old car, as I siad to him that £100 would have bought a fair bit of fuel in the old car, as would the 2grand he spent on the "more economical" car he now has Another customer recently changed his Lucida (25 round town) to a pug 806 (35 round town), left him £800 out of pocket and how long will it take to make that £800 back at an extra 10 MPG ??
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Last Edit: Apr 22, 2012 17:26:55 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Apr 22, 2012 17:31:17 GMT
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A smooth surface is not allways best, anyone see mythbusters where they dimple a car all over and GAINED MPG DOH accidently deleited what i'd written whilst sort my spelling mistakes Basicly i turn the engine off at long wait lights and even coast up to them with it off.
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Last Edit: Apr 23, 2012 9:32:40 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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Apr 22, 2012 17:33:15 GMT
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Good spot Bortaf - I've started doing this whenever it looks like I'll be stationary for more than say 5 seconds or so, also as mentioned I now always park so the least possible amount of manoeuvring is needed to drive straight off while the engine is cold and using more fuel.
Taking advice from someone else in this thread - Just went past a Shell that was advertising Diesel at 2p cheaper a litre than anywhere else, getting near the red (but not on it yet) so as I wasn't in a hurry and needed a slash I stopped and slopped a tenner's worth in. Then when I went in to pay they had Practical Classics on the shelf - Bonus!
It's the little things like all of this that's the reason I started this thread - On their own, each of these little tips sound a bit daft / OCD. However put them all together and make them habit and magically your MPG improves permanently!
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Last Edit: Apr 22, 2012 17:34:16 GMT by djefk
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Apr 22, 2012 19:20:26 GMT
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This is the reason I use for keeping the 1200 small block in the Nova. It's never gonna be a racing car with a great big whole in the roof, but it does give nice chilled, pleasant cruising all through summer, and around 45mpg to boot (after an thorough engine rebuild), which is 50% better than my comfy daily modern.
So this is the reason I always put forward when buying shiny new parts, it pays for itself in fuel economy and cheaper tax and insurance!
Now I've said that, I ask that no one here counters this argument with a price of parts vs fuel costs calculation!
I think of it that I get more smiles per gallon when I drive my retro!
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edwell
Part of things
Posts: 199
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Apr 22, 2012 19:44:56 GMT
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Apr 22, 2012 20:43:24 GMT
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It's something I've read about before, and it does make a lot of sense. But it's not really practical in most cases in my eyes. It's uncomfortable, takes a lot more effort than constant speed cruising, and is a pain in the backside for anyone behind you. Still an interesting idea though, and if you're short on fuel/money late at night then it could be well worth considering.
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Last Edit: Apr 22, 2012 20:44:07 GMT by RobinJI
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Apr 22, 2012 22:40:39 GMT
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after my drive to wheels day in the escort I have found that the easiest way to get good economy from it is to fit a towbar to the bora and hire a trailer and put the escort on that, as the escort will average between 80-100miles to 10gallons of fuel if you take it easy ;D ;D
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Last Edit: Apr 22, 2012 22:42:51 GMT by Deleted
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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In most cars I have driven (including the ones in my 'list', going over 75-80MPH on the motorway goes from making progress to murdering the fuel economy (and getting the engine warmer (no handy in a car that overheats (my old Mondeo when it had cooling gremlins). Besides that, what the other posters have said. Smoothness IMHO is the key to good economy. Not having to use too much throttle or brake (literally making roundabouts a smooth transition, perceiving traffic ahead so as to come off the loud pedal, and not touch your brakes). Being a little economical does not mean you will necessarily be slower either (perceiving things ahead and acting accordingly will save you more time than if you went up to the junction at full pelt and slammed your brakes on to see how the traffic was). Saying that, the V6 Mondeo used to get 22MPG as a work vehicle. Out of work it gets closer to or on 30MPG . A friend in a new Mercedes E220 Coupe gets 35MPG. Whislt he puts his foot down in most places he still gets to destinations at a similar time to me (sometimes I have usurped his times too!). I'm not saying that my method is the be all or end all, but it seems to work for me .
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All of the above.
Forget not too, fill the tank up at night when it's cooler and the fuel vapor has turned more back to liquid- if the tank is hot on my truck from being in the sun after a day at work, the difference on the gauge is as radical as 1/4 tank cold, just-off-E hot, which equates to a good ten dollars of fuel.
Why put liquid in to force out vapor you paid for?
-Phil
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that fuel vapour thing is a myth, I'm sure snopes and a couple of other places explain the science of why the filling up at night thing makes no difference.
Also I'd not trust anything mythbusters say as fact. Its "entertainment" and they don't have the facilities to do true testing regimen
Pulse & coast is great on test tracks or long empty motorways but where do we have those now? There is also a safety aspect that you will seriously curse word off anyone behind you if you are speeding up and slowing down the whole time plus "safe driving is predictable driving" - plus when I tried it, I soon got very bored of it!
There is a section on ecomodder about "hypermiling" and there are some good techniques there but as said before - read the road, maintain large gaps and keep your momentum. Remember, any time you are braking to slow down or stop thats a sign you are wasting fuel! Your brakes are burning off the energy your petrol made!
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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that fuel vapour thing is a myth, I'm sure snopes and a couple of other places explain the science of why the filling up at night thing makes no difference. Also I'd not trust anything mythbusters say as fact. Its "entertainment" and they don't have the facilities to do true testing regimen Pulse & coast is great on test tracks or long empty motorways but where do we have those now? There is also a safety aspect that you will seriously curse word off anyone behind you if you are speeding up and slowing down the whole time plus "safe driving is predictable driving" - plus when I tried it, I soon got very bored of it! There is a section on ecomodder about "hypermiling" and there are some good techniques there but as said before - read the road, maintain large gaps and keep your momentum. Remember, any time you are braking to slow down or stop thats a sign you are wasting fuel! Your brakes are burning off the energy your petrol made! Then why does a golf ball travel further with dimples? less air resistance as the dimples hold small pockets of air and air against air is slipperyer than air against a surface, the same program tested tailgate up against tailgate down in a pickup and i've tested that too and it's true, tailgate up is better on fuel as the bed traps a pocket of air that forces the flow over the tailgate with less resistance than the flow would travel over the bodywork. As for the fill up at night, all my fuel tanks read less in the morning as the dash area heats up with driving the gauge rises but of course the fuel level goes down so you don't notice, I checked the fill many, many times on my recovery truck and over many years when mini cabing, I get the same amount in but the gauge reads higher when the vehical is warm and lower when cold but the fuel amount is the same, the only time I ever managed to get more in the tank is when the vehical (transit in all cases) was fully loaded but thats down to the tank shape and less pockets or air being trapped when filling to the max.
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Last Edit: Apr 23, 2012 9:48:40 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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Apr 23, 2012 10:26:26 GMT
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golf balls and cars arn't the same thing so it doesn't naturally hold to be true that what applies to one does to another. Fuel gauges lie, mine tells me the tank is full on hard right corners so obviously if I fill the tank up on a hard left I'll get more petrol in it... What matters is how fuel is metered and theres a whole pile of sciencey stuff I won't pretend to understand well enough to explain which says heat, barometric pressure and altitude are not going to affect the actual fuel dispensation or use. I once got 26 mpg out of my Buick on a run to Kent and back. I was wearing a red shirt that day. Therefore wearing a red shirt gives like 35% fuel economy increase. But really, I have no explanation for the 26mpg figure. No way would it do that to the gallon (19mpg on a run usually) and I filled up and noted fuel at start and end of the run... somewhere an error crept in. Some stuff works, some stuff doesn't. TV, magazines and internet alike are generally full of rubbish... Lots of 2+2=5 out there.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Apr 23, 2012 17:37:16 GMT
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What matters is how fuel is metered and theres a whole pile of sciencey stuff I won't pretend to understand well enough to explain which says heat, barometric pressure and altitude are not going to affect the actual fuel dispensation or use. Only think I can think of is that fuel is sold by volume - not sure if ambient temperature is taken into account, when it's cold the fuel is more dense. Trailling wind and clear roads both ways?? Driver was well chilled out due to wearing a red shirt therefor stayed off the loud pedal??
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Last Edit: Apr 23, 2012 17:44:09 GMT by dodgerover
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Apr 23, 2012 18:58:11 GMT
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that fuel vapour thing is a myth, I'm sure snopes and a couple of other places explain the science of why the filling up at night thing makes no difference. Unless there's something particularly hokey going on with my fuel gauge I have to disagree. The fuel tank on mine is black plastic, and if the sun's on the side of the vehicle, it's shone on right through the rear wheel arch. It gets too hot to touch, and is a sealed system. It emits a fair PFSSSSSSssssss if I crack it open during the day too. But, I'll hush now
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Apr 23, 2012 19:32:43 GMT
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If you have a long journey to do on the motorway, get a CD you like, or a series of podcasts, get behind a wagon, and slipstream it. If you need to go faster, get behind a National Express coach as they don't seem to be limited to 56mph. If you do this, you can get quite good economy - but you need to stay very alert. I've had an average of 72mpg from a dirty, badly maintained Multipla with a boot full of junk (and that is an average, my car is too old to have an instantaneous read out.)
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