Question for MOT tester

[mrx]

I'm sure hotwire will be along shortly to lock the hell out of this thread, but here goes

If someone brings in a car with modifications to the monocoupe shell, are you legally obliged to fail the vehicle?

If after seeing the modification, do you just stop doing the test and put "Refusal to examin due to modifications"?

I know Vosa don't care, as I was watching watchdog and that blue transit camper van that the mot guy mot'd himself and sold on with no rear chassis legs, but if a modified monocoupe was in a crash and you passed it, are you liable for prosecution, and would that mean you will loose your mot licence and livlyhood?

As Stealth said, the amount of "non repair" modifictions are astronomical, and as hotwire and plums said, it would be inpractical to iva all of them, so are you given certain leeway to turn a blind eye to modifications to the monocoupe shell?

Thanks either way guys

[scaryoldcortina]

You can't fail for modifications to the shell in themselves, no. You can fail if your modifications are in a prescribed area and fall short of the required standard for repairs, or if the whole vehicle is so weakened that brakes and steering may be compromised (ie, same critera as corrosion)

[mrx]

And you are an mot tester?

[mrx]

And from what you say, if a car comes in with 4 link boxes, as long as its done properly, then its not a reason for refusal to examine

[stealthstylz]

SOC is a MOT tester yes.

It's not upto an MOT tester to decide whether a car is modified or not, they test to meet certain safety criteria, if all the criteria are met then the car passes.

There was talk/rumour of putting a "vehicle modified" click box on the MOT a few years ago.

Matt

[mrx]

Cool, so if someone, which is pretty much everyone, presents a car not knowing the regs, puts a car in for mot, that blatently wants an iva, and the mot guy is under no obligation to inform anyone, then where is there any issues legally?

[popuptoaster]

Nov 25, 2012 14:06:13 GMT mrx said:

Cool, so if someone, which is pretty much everyone, presents a car not knowing the regs, puts a car in for mot, that blatently wants an iva, and the mot guy is under no obligation to inform anyone, then where is there any issues legally?

Far as I was aware there are no legal issues for the MOT man, the car will be fine unless flagged for inspection which has mainly been happening when the computer records for your MOT (wrong engine usually) or insurance declared mods conflict with your V5, or you try to transfer a number plate and you get hit with a random inspection, or have an accident that needs investigating, or get pulled at a roadside VOSA check.

[brock05]

As far as I understand it the IVA only applies if the vehicle no longer uses the original shell (or an original spec replacement), rather than based on modifications to the shell. If you have enough points by using various original components (shell/steering/suspension/engine/transmission), even if modified, then the vehicle is not classed as new, and doesn't need to be Re Type-approved. Normal MOT regs would then apply.

[popuptoaster]

Nov 25, 2012 14:50:59 GMT brock05 said:

As far as I understand it the IVA only applies if the vehicle no longer uses the original shell (or an original spec replacement), rather than based on modifications to the shell. If you have enough points by using various original components (shell/steering/suspension/engine/transmission), even if modified, then the vehicle is not classed as new, and doesn't need to be Re Type-approved. Normal MOT regs would then apply.

The 8 points required to retain your reg number MUST include 5 points for an UNMODIFIED monocoque, to get a new reg the car must pass BIVA

[stealthstylz]

As PUT says you need 5 points from the unmodified monocoque shell or chassis. You can add to but not modify or remove, so for instance you can fit a rollcage, but if you chop holes in the bulkhead to run tubes to the strut tops legally needs an IVA. If you notch the chassis rails for clearance (anything from early framed hot rods right upto modern cars (mm4 golfs in particular need a chassis notch to get low) the car legally needs an IVA. This isn't just about bunging a pop logbook on a homemade box section chassis, the effects are far more reaching than that.

The other problem we're facing is that the IVA test has had such a low uptake that its in danger of being removed. If this happens there will simply be no way to legally register a heavily modified vehicle. If that happens and your car gets called in for inspection you'd basically end up with a very expensive full size model car that could never go back on the road.

[hellman]

very correct matt.

if that happens we'll be curse word.

[curly89]

This is scary stuff for the future of heavily modded cars, the red tape is one thing that scares me about big mods though.

[popuptoaster]

Nov 25, 2012 20:48:36 GMT curly89 said:

This is scary stuff for the future of heavily modded cars, the red tape is one thing that scares me about big mods though.

I doubt the IVA will go anywhere as it covers kit cars, imports and limited production vehicles, If one is likely to go it will be BIVA that might get dropped as that's the one for modified vehicles.

The answer to that issue if it happens will be to modify your car enough that it counts as a new build rather than a modified old build.

It won't help anyone interested in originality but personally if i could afford it, all my builds would consist of the best kit car chassis i could afford with an old cars panels fitted around it and an appropriate interior.

Much as I like classic cars to look at most of them suck when compared to driving a new car and living with it day to day so i'd like to get rid of all the old stuff and just keep the looks.

[Clement]

I doubt the IVA will go anywhere as it covers kit cars, imports and limited production vehicles, If one is likely to go it will be BIVA that might get dropped as that's the one for modified vehicles.

I mean that in the friendliest way, but yeah right. They've done it elsewhere...

[Dez]

its true, BIVA uptake is far too low for the DVLAs liking. they were expecting higher numbers, but people are still trying to avoid it instead. its far, far more likely the IVA and BIVA will become amalgamated somehow. the kit car and import markets have enough clout to keep the IVA viable- some of the import companies are putting as many as a car a day through it- and thats just one company.
so i cant see it disappearing all togehter.

[Clement]

Not disappearing as much as slowly evaporating I'd say. Reasons will vary between homologation, administration, safety, etc.
I'm saying that because I live in a country where homologating an imported car takes two years (from outside the EU or for an older car or a limited production like a TVR, in the case of a modern car imported from within the EU it's only two months), and inspection of a modified vehicle costs at the very least €7500+VAT (braking test at the UTAC facilities in Montlhéry).

I was quite disappointed of some people's reaction on TFMoggy's thread, even if a BIVA sounds like a pain in the neck it's still a very nice compromise if you ask me!

[popuptoaster]

A lot of the guys who's car SHOULD be going through BIVA have been building cars and swopping ID tags around however they wanted for 20 or 30 years and will continue to do so unless they are forced not to.

Its amazing how many guys will spend 10-15k building a 400bhp cossie powered mk2 Escort with all the trimmings but as soon as you mention putting it in for test they start whinging about a nanny state and the "government can curse word off".

[xbo11ox]

Nov 25, 2012 22:46:22 GMT popuptoaster said:

Its amazing how many guys will spend 10-15k building a 400bhp cossie powered mk2 Escort with all the trimmings but as soon as you mention putting it in for test they start whinging about a nanny state and the "government can curse word off".

LOL! so true.

[mrx]

I don't think when someone spends countless amounts on a project that they are scared of the IVA, I think what they are scared of is A) it not passing and the retest fee, though if you have it in mind while building this shouldnt be an issue, B) wipeing x amount of value of a vehicle by loosing its historic value, C) the sheer implication of the unknown, especially having to add or comply to saftey regs that just wernt needed when the vehicle was originally manufactured, like radii, side repeaters, wiper spindles, locks etc

mateys minor would have been easy to IVA, but as he said himself, if it has to be on a Q, its staying off road.

there is one easy think the gov could do....and thats allow reg numbers to be transfered onto q lates

[mrx]

Plates even