Merc engine swap

[Nozza]

At the moment I have a 1993 Mercedes 190E 2.0 automatic, I also have a 2.3 16 valve engine and limited slip diff and propshaft which is crying out to be fitted!

What I don't have is the correct Bosch KE jetronic ecu or fuel pump.
Neither do I have the correct getrag gearbox!

My Question is.....Will it work?

Other than that it is the same family of engine, and should be a straight swap!!!

Any help from any gurus most appreciated before I fit it anyway and see if it works. ;D

[welshpug]

is the original 2.0 a carb?

[Nozza]

No mate, the 2.0 is KE jet too,

So the (daft?) idea is to run the 2.3 motor with its 2.3 injection system on the 2.0 ecu and fuel pump. The fuel pump will be at a slightly lower pressure than the proper one, but that can be changed, the main bit is getting the 2.3 injection system running from the 2.0 ecu??

Oh and Granade-ing the gearbox.

[welshpug]

fuel pressure is sorted by the fuel pressure regulator, not fuel pump.

no idea on the rest of KE stuff though, I know LE Jetronic!

[Nozza]

Apr 20, 2013 10:34:58 GMT welshpug said:

fuel pressure is sorted by the fuel pressure regulator, not fuel pump.

no idea on the rest of KE stuff though, I know LE Jetronic!

Thanks very much mate, any info is new info to me.

[khimanimohiki]

You'll need to check the 2.3 engine has KE-Jetronic or just K-Jetronic, the former has an electro-hydraulic actuator on the side of the metering head, the latter will have a warm-up regulator.

[Nozza]

Apr 25, 2013 19:21:00 GMT khimanimohiki said:

You'll need to check the 2.3 engine has KE-Jetronic or just K-Jetronic, the former has an electro-hydraulic actuator on the side of the metering head, the latter will have a warm-up regulator.

Cheers mate, I'm almost certain that they are both KE jet.

But part of me wishes it was both carbs!!!!

[khimanimohiki]

in that case the 2.0 electrics will run it just fine

[TurboDieselWeasel]

I'd be much more concerned about the ignition ECU!!! The 16V is quite a bit different! Also the fuel pump relais acts as a rev-limiter. You might want to swap this, if the 16V has a higher redline. IIRC it's 5500on the 2.3 and 2.0.

They both are indeed a KE-Jetronic. Although I'm not sure if the 2.0 ECU would work, I'd at the very least fit a 2.3 8V ECU (plenty available from W124s). But: ignition ECU! I bet you will run into problems using a 8V ignition ECU...

But I don't know much about the 16V engines not had many in my claws; only that pretty much everything on them is slightly different ;D

[Nozza]

So either way I'm going to have plenty of fun and head scratching before I even find out how long the gearbox lasts. ;D

I suppose If the worst comes to the worst I could go down the magasquirt route.

[Nozza]

Up to now, the plan is going to be...

A; Get rid of the Manta, so I have some room to work in.,soon to be collected.

B; Get a brand new MoT on the 190E, as is with 2.0 engine, so at least I know that everything else is Ok.

C; See if the LSD fits the existing driveshafts, I have the 2.3 propshaft (for a manual) so the prop should go with a bit of mix and match.

D; Maybe strip engine and give it a quick once over, gaskets, seals etc.

All the while looking to see what comes up for sale that looks like it will fit.

E; Start the conversion plan!

I'll start a Build thread once I start doing stuff, but at the moment I'm a bit stuck for space!

[rodney]

as said the only issue that stands out is the ignition being a 16v , although on the fords we use a 1.3 8v ignition setup on the 16v zetecs and it works ok

[vaughant]

Better off junking the k-jet due to ecu issues and running it on carbs instead,more tuneable and gonna be a lot easier.

Is it possible to acquire the 2.3 16v bits you need?

[dude]

I wouldn't even try with the 2.0 ecu, it's a 80hp difference. Even if you get it running i'd be scared to melt some pistons, or be 40hp short and have a badly running engine.
As stated both run the same k-jet, so it should just be a case of getting the right boxes to plug into it.
As far as i know the cosworth bits are so expensive you might as well go with dual webers or something, will be a lot cooler too. Or megasquirt and you're set for future forced induction ;D

The gearbox will bolt up, but won't be long lived.
I don't know what fuel pump these cars use, but most are good for this kind of hp. If you want to upgrade chinese walbro 255 and bosch 044 copies are cheap on ebay.

[khimanimohiki]

I really don't think you will see any difference with the 2.0 ECU. The 4.2 M116 in my W115 is running with ECU, fuel pump relay, ignition controller and wiring harness from cars spanning 15 years and multiple variants of K and KE-Jetronic. Once you study the wiring diagrams and you will find that the fuel ECU actually does very little, in fact it does nothing to the ignition. Yes the fuel pump relay acts as the rev limiter, cutting fuel supply at a predetermined RPM, you'll be ok using any 4 cylinder FRP.

Just get it in there and running until you can find all the 'correct' electronics.

[mrabody]

Check out the 190 forum. I've seen discussions on there about this sort of swap.

As for electronics - remember, at KE-Jet is mechanical injection - so fuel ecu really is for fine tuning for emissions and driveability.

[Nozza]

Well I'm Still waiting for the gent to take the Manta that I sold him, But on the plus side I managed to pick up an ECU and a head gasket set from a chap at the Mercedes-190.co.uk forum.

Which was nice.

[Nozza]

So I have the correct ecu now, Does anyone on here know of any compatible gearboxes that will take the torque, not blow up, and go on without much adapting (other than changing the pedal box)

[BenzBoy]

I'd just try it with the standard gearbox if I were you. The 2.3 Cossie lump isn't that much more powerful over the 8v M102. It's a nice engine and worth doing, don't get me wrong! If you were putting 500 lb ft through it I'd be worried, but I reckon it'll be fine.

Chuck it in and see what happens!

[stwat]

Just bear in mind that the 16 valve cars had twin fuel pumps. Well, apart from the very early 2.3-16's that had a single pump. But that was soon upgraded along with other things to cope with the extra demand on the fuel system.

As others have said, many parts are 16v specific, such as the ignition ECU, metering head and many many other parts. And in true MB form, many parts were updated and upgraded through the years to help performance/reliability.

The Getrag dogleg box is seriously strong and massively under stressed in the 16 valve. They can manage many times the BHP given out by the standard cars. The original cars in full race form had 320 BHP bafore being de-tuned by MB for public consumption.
So as said, the non cosworth gearbox should be well up to the standard 2.3-16 power. The dogleg getrag was a bit of an overkill in the standard valvers to be honest.