hand fabricated aluminium bomber-style aircraft seats

[Dez]

this is another little project ive been working on recently, as a sideline from building the hot rods, but directly linked to it.
as some of you may know, aluminium aircraft/bomber style seats are very popular within hot rodding circles, indeed they were essentially the first lightweight sports/bucket seat available as army surplus to hot rodders after the war. as such, they command high prices, but originals are usually quite a compromise, for various reasons. various people have started making reproductions over the years, ranging from excellent but very expensive, to utter curse word that really are quite laughable or just downright dangerous.

as such, these are my own design, designed to perform as I need them to in a traditional hot rod, but with looks loosely based on a couple of gen-yoo-wine examples of original seats from my collection.

what most people envision when the term 'bomber seat' is bandied about is in reality a long way from the truth of what these seats were actually like. most are far too wide to physically fit in the tight confines of a hot rod, as they were designed to be sat in whilst wearing full high-altitude winter flying gear, and whilst sitting on a parachute.

for example, this is a genuine pilots/co-pilots seat from a B-24 liberator. it is made entirely from spotwelded stainless steel, by the edward g. bigg manufacturing co., who pioneered the process of spotwelding, under the name of 'shotweld'.
its nearly 22" wide, which is much too wide, and has has an adjsutable height base, an unnecessary extravagance for the seats I am making.

here it is more or less as it was dug up off a ww2 air base in norfolk. it has been welded onto a steel base and the back chopped down, presumably after the war, for reasons unknown-













overall, this seat is a good shape and design, but too wide and unnecessarily complicated for the purpose I intend. it has a lot of nice design touches to it though, the swages, the wired edges, and the flared holes.

the other pair of seats I have are from a westland gazelle helicopter, and are of an entirely different design and construction. they are very, very thin aluminium over a hard foam core, all pop-rivetted together. helicopters are generally only used for short-hops, paricularly the lightweight gazelle, so the seats are much narrower and lighter.










this is much closer in construction to what I plan, but I don't find the shape as pleasing, so I will be using aspects of the construction of these seats, but on a shape more similar to that of the B-24 seat to give a more forties look, and made out of a single thickness of thicker gauge aluminium, with various braces, swaging, flared holes and edging to give strength.

[Dez]

first, i started with some CAD. i put these together about a year ago now, the side profile is based on that of the B-24 seat, with a deep base and sides that taper out to the top. they're a much snugger 16" wide, with a 20degree layback. i just messsed around drawing out shapes and working out my dimensions until i thought it looked right and was reasonably easy to draw out again.



i also experimented with the shape of the top, different bits can be added to change the look-




this initial designing went much quicker than expected, mostly as i has some original seats to work to, and the extensive online research id also conducted into other designs. but, due to other commitments it was nearly a year before i took the project any further!

[Dez]

then, with the dimensions fully cataloged, i proceeded to draw them out on the aluminium, marking out where i wanted to put a lot of the swages, edging and rivets, before cutting out the sides and the edges. yes, this bit is deliberately sparse on images






after a lot of cutting, trimming, drilling and rivetting , swaging, hole cutting and flaring later, i have the side profiles looking how i want them to, and the basics of the base and back roughed out.



a few more hours later, and i have both sides attached to the back and base, giving the basics of the seat. you can see i have added a harness hole to each side, one of the requirements of use on a hot rod. this has a flared edge, and the edging added to the seats is rolled over to give a smoother edge. the swages are added for a mixture of strength and detail.



more to come soon

[awoo]

that looks pretty savage. will be interesting to see how this goes

[rustempire]

Dez I always find your work fascinating and inspirational and these seats are no exception, they look absolutely fantastic.

Rob

[guz]

needs more build pics

[PhoenixCapri]

Wow they're stunning, love them!

[Dez]

guz, more build pics will be posted soon, but I'm being selective about what i show as i don't want someone knicking my design!

awoo/rustempire/phoenixcapri, thanks. they're obviously a bit of a showcase for what i can do, as theres quite a few metalshaping techniques goes into them. I'm still working on the design at the mo, adding the rest of the bracing- more pics once i get some spare time to finish them off!

[sowen]

Nice!

Just a thought, have you considered solid rivets instead of pop rivets? They can look dead funky when done well

[jrevillug]

Looking good.

Edward Budd was quite the character - He was instrumental in the introduction of pressed-steel panels and all-steel construction to cars, he worked with Andre Citroen on the (monocoque) Traction Avant, and has been inducted into the automotive hall of fame as the father of the stainless steel streamliner.

I first heard about him on this TV series - he's mentioned a couple of times bewteen 6:10 and 14:30, and also around 17:55 and 22:50. Some nice period footage too.

[Dez]

Aug 8, 2013 23:10:30 GMT sowen said:

Nice!

Just a thought, have you considered solid rivets instead of pop rivets? They can look dead funky when done well

i have, but i see the idea as slightly pointless and actually period incorrect, despite quite a few people trying to tell me the opposite. people in the states who make similar seats insist on using them, but ive never actually seen a 'real' bomber seat that is buck rivetted together, especially a ww2 era one. theyve all been popped or spot-welded as the ones i have. pop rivets were invented in the '20s, and by the time war production was in full swing, i fail to see why any manufacturer would be still using bucks- they can only be used in open panels, and require more skill to fit than pops, and take much longer to fit, even with a helve hammer.

so for me, for them to look 'right', they need to use blind rivets.

[Dez]

Aug 9, 2013 0:01:55 GMT jrevillug said:

Looking good.

Edward Budd was quite the character - He was instrumental in the introduction of pressed-steel panels and all-steel construction to cars, he worked with Andre Citroen on the (monocoque) Traction Avant, and has been inducted into the automotive hall of fame as the father of the stainless steel streamliner.

I first heard about him on this TV series - he's mentioned a couple of times bewteen 6:10 and 14:30, and also around 17:55 and 22:50. Some nice period footage too.

yeah, i did a bit of research on him when i first got the seat, and was surprised at the stuff he developed.

hes one of those pioneers who we really should know more about given the way his ideas have changed production of not just cars, but pretty much all metal manufactured products. i mean, take away pressed steel panels, the monocoque and spotwelding, and we'd be back hot- rivetting together chassis and putting coachbuilt bodyshells on them like in the '20s.

[sowen]

Aug 9, 2013 11:55:50 GMT Dez said:

Aug 8, 2013 23:10:30 GMT sowen said:

Nice!

Just a thought, have you considered solid rivets instead of pop rivets? They can look dead funky when done well

I have, but I see the idea as slightly pointless and actually period incorrect, despite quite a few people trying to tell me the opposite. people in the states who make similar seats insist on using them, but ive never actually seen a 'real' bomber seat that is buck rivetted together, especially a ww2 era one. theyve all been popped or spot-welded as the ones I have. pop rivets were invented in the '20s, and by the time war production was in full swing, I fail to see why any manufacturer would be still using bucks- they can only be used in open panels, and require more skill to fit than pops, and take much longer to fit, even with a helve hammer.

so for me, for them to look 'right', they need to use blind rivets.

I see where you're coming from, it's all down to personal preference and all that stuff. It's just that I have access to the gear to do it and prefer the look of solids to pops

[grizz]

As always, watching and enjoying your work Dez, thanks for sharing.

[drdick]

This looks incredible Dez. Not tempted to section the Liberator seat and use that?

[Dez]

sowen,
yeah i agree they look good. i did see some seats put together with brass ones, which looked the nuts, but bimetallic issues put me off a bit tbh. i might have a crack at a later date though.

grizz,
cheers!

drdick,
i am using the liberator seat, its currently the drivers seat in my pickup, but i don't want to massively devalue it by narrowing it as its still worth a few quid even in that condition!

[scimjim]

found this last year and didn't comment but they look great

I agree with you on solids v pops, war production wouldn't have used solids in non/lightly-stressed areas. nowadays we'd use avdels/MBC.

The gazelle seat is what we call a "low-back", later "high-backs" may be better but don't look anything like as good as the B24 type - when will you be producing them to order and how much?

[Dez]

well, ive been so busy with everything else ive got going on, ive not taken this any further to be honest. the one seat ive put together still requires a little more doing for me to be 100% happy with it, then its going in the pickup. then i need another pair for my other pickup.....it never ends!

ive done some rough costings, and a pair would cost around £500, customer can spec what holes/swages/shape top panel they want, so they're customisable to a certain extent.

[ToolsnTrack]

Dez, did these ever get finished? Love the look of them and was looking forward to seeing some installed articles!

[Dez]

yeah, i finished off that first one more or less, and its been the passenger seat in my pickup, with the liberator one as the drivers. i still want to make some tweaks to the design though before i make any more. not had the time to make any more after that, but once i get round to needing some for my next build, i'll make some more- unless anyone wants some making in the meantime. ive had a lot of interest from the one in my pickup, but nobody wanting to put their cash on the table yet.

ive also picked up another seat as a pattern to make another more rounded back one, but i need to find some form of extruded edging strip to make that one a go-er and ive not turned anything up so far.