Anything Triumph Herald

[underrcat]

Hi there, 
I have recently bought a 1965 Triumph Herald (Tess) for my first car. after attending a couple of shows and searching the internet I now know how I want her but the problem being the same as every 18 year old with a girlfriend faces, MONEY. 
I would like Tess to sit a little lower and have read about people fitting spit springs on the back and cutting springs on the front.
I would also like a little more power out of her but have to keep in mind the stupid prices of insurance for my age
also I would like my steel wheels banded but don't know how wide to go without scraping and rubbing arches.
I have worked on classics before with a friend so I'm not a complete fool when it comes to a car but I'm no professional mechanic ever so things need to be easy and quick as Tess will be my daily driver when ive passed at the start of next year.
so the questions I'm asking are,

are fitting spitfire springs easy and how much should I cut front springs by?
how much can I band my wheels by and what tyre profiles will work best?
any cheap mods to do to get 100% out of the 1200 engine?
also do duel exhausts of a vittese fit a herald with minimum hassle?
and any other tips to stop me spending hours fitting one part or anything to save me time in the future

thankss:)

when it comes round to not having money problems when ive got a job with a few more hours i will probably make a build thread cause i want to go mad with it as classics are my pride really, never have got enough of them 

[composimmonite]

Pass your test first. Then get at least a years driving / no claims under your belt before attempting any modifying otherwise you might struggle to find insurance. Concentrate at present on getting chassis and bodywork mint way before you start messing with anything else. The expression "fur coat but no knickers" applies when you start modifying without ensuring the most basic structure is 100% sound first. You could have a car lowered to the weeds, V8 engine, huge wide wheels but without a licence, insurance and MOT you aren't going anywhere. In mean time if you love classics then why do you want to modify the same as any other 18 year old does to their Eurobox Fiesta, Corsa, Saxo, etc ? Look at what period mods were done to the Herald rather than what people do to their modern cars. Maybe consider joining the appropriate club so speak with other owners - I found the TSSC www.tssc.org.uk/ better than Triumph Owners Club. Massive amount of knowledge already out there for period type modifications to the Herald without adopting modern trends.

Paul H

[underrcat]

Hi thanks for the reply
and yeah I understand where you coming from, the only reason I really wanted to lower it is because since I was 14 Ive always worked on classic vw such as beetles, notchbacks and a splitty camper, so I wanted to try and mix the two cars together. also Ive never really like the positive 2 degree camber and how far the wheels fit in the arch, I was considering getting spacers to push the wheel in but then there is still camber
and thanks for the forum link, will give me something else to ponder in my spare time

[composimmonite]

With a Herald the thing people normally do is try to improve handling rather than lowering. There are various ways of modifying Herald suspension that won't upset the insurance company as they are well proven methods. Such methods MIGHT result in the car being lower
Simply using wheels off another model in the Triumph range will give you some extra dish without resulting to having them banded. Overtyre a Herald and I THINK it can be detrimental to the handling plus can accelerate front suspension wear. As such if you look at pictures you will see even racers tend to stick with quite narrow (165 / 175) profile.
A standard engine in perfect order and properly tuned is better than a ropey modified engine. If you want to read look at "Blueprinting" an engine. Obviously you don't want to go that far but making sure everything is working together properly, cam timing exact, ignition timing spot on, carb set up properly, manifolds matched to head ports and such will make a nicer running engine without upsetting insurer. Then after a year of so you can consider a swop to a 1297cc engine - maybe twin carb Spitfire lump. Although larger capacity the 1500cc is regarded by many as inferior to a nice 1300 !

Paul h

[MrSpeedy]

Aside from the twin exhaust, pretty much everything you've suggested IS a period mod. I'm not convinced about the twin tailpipes on the saloons personally, but each to their own.

Anyways, Banded wheels. Yes. I am a fan, I am biased, but these cars do wear them well. IIRC 6" is about as wide as you can go with 175/60 rubber. Possibly needing a slight arch roll, but nothing serious.

Suspension. Lowering the car, will help handling and also reduce/remove/reverse the positive camber. Front springs can be chopped, but proper springs are available for around £30 each. Rear spring lowering blocks in 1/2", 3/4" and 1" are available. These raise the spring, thus lowering the car by the same amount. Add some polybushes in all the joint and a decent set of aftermarket shocks and you'll be wondering what all the hype is about.
If you want to go further, there's a swing spring conversion to the later mk5 (1500) Spitfire set up (Canley Classics, approx £300) or a full on IRS 'Rotoflex' conversion from a MK2 Vitesse or MK3 GT6.

For a little more 'GO' then keep your eyes out for a 1300 or 1500 Spitfire lump. Slightly more lumpy cam and twin carbs come as standard, bolt in swap, and very little external differences The 1300 revs better, but the 1500 has more low end torque. When you have some NCB under your belt you could always go for a straight six conversion, but be sure to uprate the brakes as well. In fact, that's not a bad idea anyway!

I'll just leave mine here;

[ferny]

It's pretty much as Mr Speedy said. Don't chop the front springs, replacements are already out there cheaply from lots of people.
Don't fit a Spitfire rear spring. They're a lighter car and that's why the car sits lower with one fitted to a Herald. You may be thinking of a swing spring conversion which will be off a Spitfire or GT6 and again the spring is wrong. Proper kits with suitable springs are out there. Why fit a spring designed for a lighter car which is already old and tired?

Whatever you do, be sensible. I've got a 1" lowering block on the back and shorter 500lb springs on the front. I'll post some photos showing the result with a bit of weight in the boot. It's on the bump stops which adds stress to other components and changes the handling drastically - that's why I say be sensible.










Some links for you;
www.canleyclassics.com
www.jamespaddock.co.uk
www.triumph.org.uk


Oh, and make sure you get classic car insurance and not a modern car policy. I know things are different now but my first insurance was for £360 for 3k limited miles - the Herald was my first car. If you prang it, most modern policies will write it off or undervalue it.

[Seth]

Being a '65 car I think yours should have the uprated 1200 engine that was originally introduced for the 12/50. That means a better cam and also a higher compression ratio than the earlier 1200s had. (This assumes it still has the original engine but checking the eng no. would be the best confirmation of what you've got) So you could potentially get a bit more power out of it with improved breathing, using early Spitfire carbs and a free-er flowing exhaust.

[stillnotfinished]

get a mk2 spitfire exhaust manifold, twin 1 1/4 su carbs and manifold. free flow air filter inside a spitfire air box with cold air feed. set up properly that will give you an extra 10bhp, don't sound much but its all relative, you should have 59bhp as standard on that engine, if its original, should start ga on block. I had a swing spring on mine and it was too low tbh.{ I probably have a lowering block somewhere for one} get some 5.5 inch wheels, I used some of a marina!!!
that should do you for now.
go out drive it and have fun!!

[Seth]

Dec 4, 2013 9:46:27 GMT stillnotfinished said:

you should have 59bhp as standard on that engine,

Its 48bhp on a late 1200. (39bhp on an early one, 51bhp on a 12/50) That's the factory quoted figures anyway. Sorry to be pedantic!

[stillnotfinished]

Dec 4, 2013 10:45:36 GMT Seth said:

Dec 4, 2013 9:46:27 GMT stillnotfinished said:

you should have 59bhp as standard on that engine,

Its 48bhp on a late 1200. (39bhp on an early one, 51bhp on a 12/50) That's the factory quoted figures anyway. Sorry to be pedantic!

oops your right!

[Deleted]

All good advice there, and another vote for lowering block even if they can be a pig to fit, some have redrilled the rear sping mounting holes lower on the uprights this will lower the suspension without having to change the spring.
Check the state of your engine eg compresion and crank end float, luckly herald lumps go for nothing compared to Ford Kent engines.
Change ignition for electronic this will ensure spark is tip top and change fan for electric, you don't have to buy kenlow just go to breakers and get one and then either have a manual switch or add sensor from ebay for a few quid, that'll free up a couple of bhp .
Spitfire or Vitesse wheels straight swop, MGF alloys will fit but modern wheels look odd on herald, and you'll have to get longer studs and alloy wheel nuts.
Poly bushes will sharpen up the handling, but don't use them on the steering rack because it will feel like your holding a jack hammer! and Green stuff or mindex pads will improve the braking. Oh and thicker anti-roll bar from GT6 will fit if it's got one lol! they came in different thickness 1/2" 5/8" and 7/8" diameter.

[Deleted]

Oh and yes show us some pictures

[MightyMork]

ooh, this is a great one to post on.
Personally, I fitted a lowering block and redrilled the rear uprights on mine this got me 3" of drop for the front.
a Jigsaw racing provided AVO coilover units and adjustable dampers at good rates
a spitfire 1500 antiroll bar is a good upgrade for the front
polybushes or even just new bushes are worth the money imo.
and don't forget stoppers can be upgraded with spitfire hubs and disc conversion or GT6 vented items.

Engine, 1500 long stroke block with the 1300 head and twin carbs gave my first spitfire some punch. My personal is to swap the lump out for something else, perhaps when your older and can insure it.

MX5 with supercharger was my choice.
[/URL]

[underrcat]

Dec 4, 2013 13:19:13 GMT MightyMork said:

ooh, this is a great one to post on.
Personally, I fitted a lowering block and redrilled the rear uprights on mine this got me 3" of drop for the front.
a Jigsaw racing provided AVO coilover units and adjustable dampers at good rates
a spitfire 1500 antiroll bar is a good upgrade for the front
polybushes or even just new bushes are worth the money imo.
and don't forget stoppers can be upgraded with spitfire hubs and disc conversion or GT6 vented items.

Engine, 1500 long stroke block with the 1300 head and twin carbs gave my first spitfire some punch. My personal is to swap the lump out for something else, perhaps when your older and can insure it.

MX5 with supercharger was my choice.

[/URL] [/quote] I sat up till 4 in the morning reading about your supercharger rotary herald, shame about all the melting exhausts and diff problems, bet it was a great drive why it lasted though,

Anyway, after Christmas I'm going to start purchasing parts and fitting, will make a tread about my progress when it comes round to it

Would also love to post some pictures but ive not got many and i also have no idea how to..

Also with living In nuneaton I have only just realised how close i am to the canley classics shop in  Fillongley. thanks guys for all the feed back and I cant wait to be driving her properly as going round the block when I get a chance without my parents moaning is starting to become a pain.

I'm sure Tess will be out properly for just after Christmas 

[ChasR]

Some great advice here which encompasses the main points although I do have some personal preferences .

On the steering I would definately poly bush these over the crappy rubber items. The play I have seen in Dolomite/Herald based racks is a bit of a joke on rubber mounts, to the point where I have seen steering boxes have more precision! The new rubber suppliers seem to sell does not seem to be up to the job or last. Cheapo Poly bushes can shake the hell out of you but the Superflex items for the steering rack on the Spitfire were fine. OK maybe now and again it may have got a bit much but after driving other Triumphs with rubber mounts at least I could control where I was going rather than the car .

Lowering a Herald and working on the brakes are two great things you can do. I have never had any sucess with EBC in the past (stock or Greenstuff) but Mintex M1144s have served me well, as a cheap way of getting a little more out of your brakes.

As for the engine I would be tempted to chuck in a 1300 Saying that, you could muck around with the 1200 to see what can be done .

But before all of that, simply getting the car into a good running order can go a long way. There are a number of Triumph specialists around Coventry though .

[stillnotfinished]

For the steering you can get alloy mounts
Get yourself onto the club triumph forum too!

[Deleted]

With you being 18 I'm going to be a killjoy and say check insurance before you do ANY mods, I can't see any insurer touching you with cut springs and banded steels let alone any engine upgrades.
And don't even think about trying to get away without declaring, being 18 in a modified classic is a sure way to get pulled by the police.

That aside why fit and cut spit springs when you can cut the original ones and there are plenty of engine mods that will give good power like a good service and decent ignition kits

[underrcat]

Thanks guys:)
And I've already checked insurance and it's about £170 a month with visual mods declared, I'm not going to really start with engine mods till I have a years no claims or I'll be selling limbs to pay it

[captain70s]

Right, first things first. I'm going to be a complete killjoy from the point of view of somebody who is 22 and has been trying to get a classic daily driver since he was 15...

Don't modify the car in any way until you pass your test, save up the money instead. Once the car is in daily use you'll be able to see how it holds together, don't want to risk blowing all your cash on wheels and then finding your valve guides are giving up...
Before you start replacing bits you should probably also check all the stock stuff over first to make sure it isn't just under-performing due to age. New brakes and suspension rubber will make a world of difference. Get all the timing and carbs bang on too, a Herald is fairly glacial by modern standards but it should nip along as it weighs sod all, my car was sluggish as hell until I sorted the carbs out. Speed is also far more prevalent in older motors, pushing up to 65mph in the 1300 is considerably more exhilarating than hitting triple figures in my Corsa!

Get some decent tyres on it too, the change in handling I got when I changed my tyres was nothing short of incredible. The old tyres weren't even that old, they were just cheap, rolling on some decent rubber made the car drive 10x better, no joke. It went from being vague, heavy and prone to wandering to being pin sharp and much lighter, really a pleasure to pilot.

I say this from experience, it is pretty staggering how quickly my car went from "a bit tappety, but nothing unusual" to "needs a top end rebuild" and then on to "needs a bottom end rebuild". In the space of about 2500 miles I think, and that was with me dotting on it...
When I bought my Dolly 1300 I had grand plans for a daily driver with bit of light tuning, 1500SE wheels, spot lights, a decent respray etc. A year on and I've just about managed to keep it driveable as a show car and to be quite honest I'll not truly be happy with it without a full strip down because after the first 800 miles or so a lot of well hidden problems came out of the woodwork...

There is also the fact that given the Herald's rear suspension set-up you'll probably find yourself going into a ditch at some point... No offence meant to you of course, after over 2 years of driving the same road every day in several cars it only took slightly too much throttle on a roundabout that was a bit more slippery than usual to send my 1850 into a fence backwards last month. I'm hard pressed to think of anybody I know who hasn't had a car accident of some sort in their first few years of motoring...
I was lucky, nobody else was involved and the car is repairable. I'd be pretty gutted if I spent tons of money and time modding a car and then smashed it up, I was angry at myself enough for denting a panel that was already dented and breaking about £150 worth of bits.



As for actual mods, don't really see the point in spending mega-money tuning the 1200 when you could simply fit 13/60 running gear with relative ease and get a more powerful base to work on, also endless performance stuff for the 1300 unit 'cause if it's Spitfire use. Either that or mod it to 12/50 spec, assuming it is just a standard 1200. Spitfire wheels look ace on Heralds, definitely consider them, chrome embellishers and chrome GT6 centre caps really set them off. Not sure if the wider GT6 wheels fit, but might be worth a look. Will give a better stance and look on the road for less cost/hassle than banded steels.


Lowering isn't my thing, looks good but my cars are worrying enough going over speed bumps as it is!

[ferny]

Dec 5, 2013 23:59:49 GMT underrcat said:

Thanks guys:)
And I've already checked insurance and it's about £170 a month with visual mods declared, I'm not going to really start with engine mods till I have a years no claims or I'll be selling limbs to pay it

Again, are you sure this is classic car insurance? Most don't accumulate a discount through no claims. Modifications tend to make very little difference to the cost.