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Jan 15, 2014 12:40:02 GMT
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But I need it to be "Fit and forget" reliable ideally. In which case cross off the list anything modern with an ECU or electronic pumps that can't be reverted back to fully mechanical control, modern diesels aren't what they were, especially if you are going to be putting it into a vehicle for everyday use which is likely to really clock up the miles. An older less refined engine might not rev to the same limit or be as smooth as a modern but they still can make decent power, I can't imagine the truck would be likely to be too smooth a ride anyway unless you start rebuilding on modern underpinnings?
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gn3dr
Part of things
Posts: 391
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Jan 16, 2014 20:47:08 GMT
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OM606 was in the Mercedes E300D, 1993 to 2001 wiki articleI think they are all EDC control, but swapping the earlier OM603 pump from a late 80's variant will make it completely mechanical. Problem is the OM603 pump won't flow as much fuel and turning the pump up is mostly shrouded in mystery, and they seem to be getting rare now. Sprinter vans use the 5 cylinder OM602 and even the Ssangyong Musso uses a variant of the 5 cylinder, the OM662, manufactured under license. I've dropped an OM606 with a modified OM603 mechanical pump into my series Land Rover, not on the road yet but makes an awesome noise just rumbling round the driveway So is there a way of running the OM606 on its original management ? OM606 management workaround - still trying to do that myself as I have a complete donor car. I got as far getting the wiring diagrams and ripping the whole lot out of the donor, but time , cash and other projects have taken my attention away from it. The mechanical pump is a tempting option but I'd have to find one and then to get it rebuilt with bigger elements was going to cost 800 exchange. However I recently came across this guy www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thread-OM606-in-Boat who has figured out a way of getting the original ecu to work. He is offering this for £300.
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i would have said a landy tdi, as with a suitable intercooler, i have had a 200Tdi in a 130 defender to 4wheel drift , plenty of torque for most and cheep to get hold of from a rusty disco ;-) don't touch a tdv6 plese for the love of god, don't go there!
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'88 Cadillac Brougham hearse (white) '91 Carlton GSi 24v '72 Dodge dual cab pick up '99 Mercedes S55 AMG
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skoze
Part of things
Posts: 382
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Have you thought about a Mazda SLT? Big 4 pot, simple as anything, 3.5 litres, 135bhp and a metric curse word-tonne of torque. Mate's got one in a 110 and it is very good, heavy though. Sounds absolutely fantastic.
Land Rover TDi's are quite good to be fair, just think the truck deserves something a bit bigger!
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Last Edit: Jan 17, 2014 0:41:42 GMT by skoze
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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So is there a way of running the OM606 on its original management ? OM606 management workaround - still trying to do that myself as I have a complete donor car. I got as far getting the wiring diagrams and ripping the whole lot out of the donor, but time , cash and other projects have taken my attention away from it. The mechanical pump is a tempting option but I'd have to find one and then to get it rebuilt with bigger elements was going to cost 800 exchange. However I recently came across this guy www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thread-OM606-in-Boat who has figured out a way of getting the original ecu to work. He is offering this for £300. The EDC is a simple electromagnetic type solenoid, with a few wires coming out of the back of it. Presumably a simple ecu capable of taking rpm, load, temperature, throttle position etc inputs giving the matching output to control the pump fuel control rack should do. I've heard a bit about Arduino(?) circuit boards a probably capable of being programmable to control the engine, just not seen one actually done yet. For anyone interested I posted a few pics up of how I disassembled my OM602 pump to take the EDC controlled OM605 pump elements to help bring the fuel capacity back up when going fully mechanical control here OM605 pump rebuild. It's not been roadtested yet, and I've also done a few little tweaks to the governor in the back to get more fuel out of it. I did exactly the same to my OM603/6 pump, and only driven that in my driveway, the difference in bottom end torque compared to a Land Rover 300tdi with pump wound up is impressive. I am seriously considering selling my 300tdi engine out of my Discovery and dropping a Mercedes OM60x lump in it's place as I think they're that good
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,842
Club RR Member Number: 174
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I've got a full 2006 Iveco 2.3 motor/box/prop/wiring/ECU if you're interested. Came out of a ELWB van and it scoots that about really well.
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Mark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,097
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Jan 17, 2014 11:04:38 GMT
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OM606 management workaround - still trying to do that myself as I have a complete donor car. I got as far getting the wiring diagrams and ripping the whole lot out of the donor, but time , cash and other projects have taken my attention away from it. The mechanical pump is a tempting option but I'd have to find one and then to get it rebuilt with bigger elements was going to cost 800 exchange. However I recently came across this guy www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thread-OM606-in-Boat who has figured out a way of getting the original ecu to work. He is offering this for £300. Wow! This is absolutely fantastic. Are you going to take him up on his offer? Is that £300 if you have all of the donor equipment? So is it a piggyback ecu?
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gn3dr
Part of things
Posts: 391
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Jan 17, 2014 12:14:54 GMT
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OM606 management workaround - still trying to do that myself as I have a complete donor car. I got as far getting the wiring diagrams and ripping the whole lot out of the donor, but time , cash and other projects have taken my attention away from it. The mechanical pump is a tempting option but I'd have to find one and then to get it rebuilt with bigger elements was going to cost 800 exchange. However I recently came across this guy www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thread-OM606-in-Boat who has figured out a way of getting the original ecu to work. He is offering this for £300. Wow! This is absolutely fantastic. Are you going to take him up on his offer? Is that £300 if you have all of the donor equipment? So is it a piggyback ecu? Yeah it's good alright. I'm thinking about taking him up on this offer alright but it will have to be later in the year as I'm smashed broke right now. I can supply ECU and wiring but he is also able to supply these if required. He can set it up to use the electronic Mercedes ignition key or not (that's the first thing I would ditch - it's just a failure waiting to happen in my opinion). It's not a piggyback ECU from what I can gather - he said he got an emulator built and installed into the Merc ECU to fool it into thinking the ECU is still in a Merc. The only open question I have is around the gearbox - I wanted to keep the original Merc 722.6 auto box on the engine. Obviously he didn't focus on this side of thingsa as his engines are in a boat. So my options are 1) To see if the Merc gearbox ECU will still talk to his Modified engine ECU (Best option if it works from a cost point of view) 2) Bite the bullet and buy the independent gearbox controller (about €450 at this stage I think). That gives the nice option of paddle shift if I want. 3)Convert to manual with a Merc manual gearbox - I prefer manual cars in general but as I'm putting the OM606 into a series 2 Jag I just think the auto probably suits that car better. This is probably the easiest option though.
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Last Edit: Jan 17, 2014 12:16:10 GMT by gn3dr
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Jan 17, 2014 12:17:15 GMT
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Cheers guys, this is all starting to look quite a sensible swap, the OM606 on stripped out loom and modded ECU looks to be the nice way forward. What manual box would fit behind it though ? As the Autobox has ecu / can communication with the engine ecu so probably wont work with the "Standalone" set up, plus the vehicle weight and gearing would be different so all the shift strategies would be wrong too.
Manual would be preferable I think. (Truck is manual anyway)
Sowen, I did see that thread, very interesting and thanks for documenting it, is the M90 on the 605 replacing or in addition to the turbo ?
As I just happen to have an AMG Merc Lysholm Charger "In stock" too ;o)
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gn3dr
Part of things
Posts: 391
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Jan 17, 2014 12:21:31 GMT
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Cheers guys, this is all starting to look quite a sensible swap, the OM606 on stripped out loom and modded ECU looks to be the nice way forward. What manual box would fit behind it though ? As the Autobox has ecu / can communication with the engine ecu so probably wont work with the "Standalone" set up, plus the vehicle weight and gearing would be different so all the shift strategies would be wrong too. Manual would be preferable I think. (Truck is manual anyway) Sowen, I did see that thread, very interesting and thanks for documenting it, is the M90 on the 605 replacing or in addition to the turbo ? As I just happen to have an AMG Merc Lysholm Charger "In stock" too ;o) Easiest option of all is the W124 OM606 non turbo which came with a manual box as an option. If you can find one of these then you have a bolt on solution. Probably a more common source though is the manual box from the c250 which has the OM605 engine - which is just a 5 cylinder version of the OM606 so again should be a bolt on solution for box, clutch and flywheel.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jan 17, 2014 12:47:20 GMT
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Cheers guys, this is all starting to look quite a sensible swap, the OM606 on stripped out loom and modded ECU looks to be the nice way forward. What manual box would fit behind it though ? As the Autobox has ecu / can communication with the engine ecu so probably wont work with the "Standalone" set up, plus the vehicle weight and gearing would be different so all the shift strategies would be wrong too. Manual would be preferable I think. (Truck is manual anyway) Sowen, I did see that thread, very interesting and thanks for documenting it, is the M90 on the 605 replacing or in addition to the turbo ? As I just happen to have an AMG Merc Lysholm Charger "In stock" too ;o) It's being built as a compound charged lump, present plan is a Holset HX35 blowing through the M90, then through a Jag XJR6 chargecooler into the engine. A 'host' is yet to be acquired, I have a shortlist, just need to finish off another project in between! Easiest option of all is the W124 OM606 non turbo which came with a manual box as an option. If you can find one of these then you have a bolt on solution. Probably a more common source though is the manual box from the c250 which has the OM605 engine - which is just a 5 cylinder version of the OM606 so again should be a bolt on solution for box, clutch and flywheel. ^this I think I've read that later CDI's share the same bellhousing bolt pattern, would need to confirm, and also the Sprinter van with the 2.9 OM602.
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Mark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,097
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Jan 17, 2014 22:05:06 GMT
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Wow! This is absolutely fantastic. Are you going to take him up on his offer? Is that £300 if you have all of the donor equipment? So is it a piggyback ecu? Yeah it's good alright. I'm thinking about taking him up on this offer alright but it will have to be later in the year as I'm smashed broke right now. I can supply ECU and wiring but he is also able to supply these if required. He can set it up to use the electronic Mercedes ignition key or not (that's the first thing I would ditch - it's just a failure waiting to happen in my opinion). It's not a piggyback ECU from what I can gather - he said he got an emulator built and installed into the Merc ECU to fool it into thinking the ECU is still in a Merc. The only open question I have is around the gearbox - I wanted to keep the original Merc 722.6 auto box on the engine. Obviously he didn't focus on this side of thingsa as his engines are in a boat. So my options are 1) To see if the Merc gearbox ECU will still talk to his Modified engine ECU (Best option if it works from a cost point of view) 2) Bite the bullet and buy the independent gearbox controller (about €450 at this stage I think). That gives the nice option of paddle shift if I want. 3)Convert to manual with a Merc manual gearbox - I prefer manual cars in general but as I'm putting the OM606 into a series 2 Jag I just think the auto probably suits that car better. This is probably the easiest option though. The 722.6 is meant to be a great box alright but I think there is little to no way of getting away from the independent gearbox controller. From memory, it takes inputs from other components of the car, like wheel speed etc so it becomes a bigger job. The 722.4 is a commonly used alternative and also a great box. The 722.4 should be just as easy as a manual conversion and would suit the jag far more.
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Bolf
Part of things
Posts: 507
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Jan 17, 2014 22:18:59 GMT
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Mercedes diesel is the way to go , you can run a mechanical pump on a 606 , see black smoke racing's website. They are currently making a video on how to make a tuned diesel on a budget worth checking out.
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Jan 17, 2014 22:37:01 GMT
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Just how big are we talking btw? Could probably drop a 4bt or 6bt in there fairly easy if its an I6 engine bay that took a vee engine as well. Lots of grunt, simple mechanical engines
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Jan 20, 2014 22:05:14 GMT
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I'm another one in the merc diesel camp , I have had a on 603 non turbo in my c10 for a year now and it been great , I'm running a sprinter gearbox flywheel couch and a hybrid prop. The only thing you have to watch is that they only have a front bowl sump from what I've seen ,although it is quite shallow . The truck cruises at 70-75 flat out at 100 but hills take there toll taking it down to 60-65 . Mpg has been a solid 35mpg since it's been in there . All on a 240,000 mile engine . Hope this helps
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