niwid
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,743
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Hello, I bought these wheels from goldnrust on here. They are 14X6 4X114.3 et13 Rays Engineering wheels, weighing just over 5kgs per corner. I am really struggling to find any information on them, and even Coordsport (the UK importers of Rays Eng.) don't have a clue about them. I spoke to Adrian Clough of Driveright, who is a bit of a wheel guru in the trade, and he thinks that they are alloy centres with steel rims, friction welded together. He also thinks that they must be quite old, as he doesn't remember the design. In terms of identification markings, there are none. The only thing that IDs the wheels at all, is a sticker on the back of the rims. This has faded to the point where it is completely illegible, however, if you catch it in the right light, you can just make out 'Rays Engineering'. I've been trying to find out how to restore the text in THIS THREADHave some photos This is the sticker, where you can just make out 'Rays Enginerring' on the bottom edge Thanks in advance for your help Tim
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Last Edit: Feb 7, 2014 14:14:57 GMT by niwid
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Not sure what they are but I like them, very unique if no one knows what they are!
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1966 MK1 Cortina 1971 Hillman Super Imp 1985 Volvo 360 GLEi 1986 Volvo 340 1.7 1990 Mercedes 190e 2.0 1993 Peugeot 205 STDT
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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The label could be a red herring - presumably a classic J wheel?
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g40jon
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,569
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Hello, I bought these wheels from goldnrust on here. They are 14X6 4X114.3 et13 Rays Engineering wheels, weighing just over 5kgs per corner. I am really struggling to find any information on them, and even Coordsport (the UK importers of Rays Eng.) don't have a clue about them. I spoke to Adrian Clough of Driveright, who is a bit of a wheel guru in the trade, and he thinks that they are alloy centres with steel rims, friction welded together. He also thinks that they must be quite old, as he doesn't remember the design. Tim I'd be mighty impressed if someone managed to weld aluminium alloy centres to steel barrels, friction or no friction. The construction of these wheels was a pretty common method, especially with custom wheel manufacturers. The barrels are all pretty much generic and the wheel centre of what-ever design is dropped into the barrel which is usually heated to give an interference fit, Once aligned the centre is welded into place. SSR/RAYS split rims are built up in a similar fashion, only they are bolted rather than welded. The stickers look like they are ssr/rays. I have owned a few sets and they all have a silver sticker which has the wheel specs no longer written on it!
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Cant help at all abut what rims they are, but if you can decipher anything from the sticker other than Rays,in the top right hand corner of the sticker will be the model, if you can make anything out that will help a lot.
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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I've found a pic on google search but the link is dead, it's an ebid pic. EDIT : looks like the post was edited? writing says "14x6 4x114. Rays Engineering Volk" but that could well about the new pic in the edited post?
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Last Edit: Feb 5, 2014 23:43:36 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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]I'd be mighty impressed if someone managed to weld aluminium alloy centres to steel barrels, friction or no friction. Friction welding is exactly what you would use to "weld" alloy to steel?
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Interestingly friction welding wasn't invented until 1991 so that may date your wheels?
The mx5 and Prius bootlids, RX8 rear doors and the B post of the Audi R8 spider are all apparently friction welded.
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g40jon
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,569
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]I'd be mighty impressed if someone managed to weld aluminium alloy centres to steel barrels, friction or no friction. Friction welding is exactly what you would use to "weld" alloy to steel? Really? Well you learn something new every day. I'm off to google to find out more as I've never heard of such black magic!! Is it a true weld (or at least what I understand to be a weld, as in the melting of two metals to join them together)or is it more of a bonding/forging process, i.e. not really welding? What stops galvanic corrosion from happening? Surely the metals are too dissimilar to actually be welded together? Rather than just make me look like a tit, care to give a bit of insight to the less well educated?!!!!
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Last Edit: Feb 6, 2014 7:36:32 GMT by g40jon
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mikeymk
Part of things
'85 Polo Coupe S 1.6 16v
Posts: 931
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I managed to do a pretty good job of friction welding iron camshafts to an alloy cam carrier in my old 04 Polo 16v sport engine.. I was surprised that the iron cam bearing surface was as quick to go as the aluminium, and that the two metals did kinda mix. I tried to tidy the sports inlet cam on a lathe but there was no removing all the alloy out of the iron.
Anyway, bit of loud thinking going on, am interested to hear more. I presumed it was just heat shrinking. My diff is done like this - the final drive gear held in place by being shrunk onto the diff. Stronger than welding, apparently, not sure I'm convinced..
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niwid
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,743
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I think I need to get a magnet on these, confirmation of the steel barrel is pretty important I think. Have a look at the weld bead in the 2nd photo. Is that typical of friction welding? I don't know if it would look any different to normal MIG or TIG bortaf, I think I found that same link when googling them. There are a couple of pictures that come up, one of which is dead, the other of which leads to this very forum, and a post that Ratdat made regarding these wheels in his collection. Can you help mate? I do remember Steve mentioning buying them from you now. On that post, the only thing written about them was 14x6 4x114 Rays Engineering wheels, so I'm guessing you know as much as we do?
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I bought them off of yahoo auctions and shipped them from Japan. They are Rays Engineering and are all alloy. I think the centres are possibly forged and the rims are rolled with the two being conventionally welded together then anodised.
Edited to add... they are definately Rays. One of those labels was still faintly legible when I got them but only if you got it at the right angle in good sunlight. Check all four as that one may still be legible. You could only read 'Rays Engineering' on it... all the other wheel size info was gone (as it's presumably printed after and not so durable).
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Last Edit: Feb 6, 2014 10:30:38 GMT by Ratdat
1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,513
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Interestingly friction welding wasn't invented until 1991 so that may date your wheels?. My copy of Kempe's Engineers Year Book from 1980 talks about friction welding. I imagine the technique vastly pre-dates that too. edit: Here's a US patent from 1959. I'm surprised its that late actually. link
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Last Edit: Feb 6, 2014 10:55:12 GMT by Seth
Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Probably not much help but this is one of the ID labels on my old-style GT-P Rays wheels, which date from 1994. So at least you know it's before that, probably quite a bit before that, judging from the differences in the label style
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Interestingly friction welding wasn't invented until 1991 so that may date your wheels?. My copy of Kempe's Engineers Year Book from 1980 talks about friction welding. I imagine the technique vastly pre-dates that too. edit: Here's a US patent from 1959. I'm surprised its that late actually. linkDoh - I always check Wikipedia references - except when I don't!!!!
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Last Edit: Feb 6, 2014 20:34:32 GMT by scimjim
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niwid
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,743
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Probably not much help but this is one of the ID labels on my old-style GT-P Rays wheels, which date from 1994. So at least you know it's before that, probably quite a bit before that, judging from the differences in the label style Thanks for that mate. However, someone else sent me their label on their wheels, dated 2005, and it seems to match mine more closely.
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niwid
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,743
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Well, after a lot of chasing, the guys at Rays in Japan finally managed to find some information. This is the email I received earlier: I have some news from Japan for you!
The wheels are Rays Engineering XRAY Wheels, they are a 2 piece Cast Welded Wheel and were available in 4 and 5 spoke designs.
They are around 30 years old!
Attached is the literature from the Rays Catalogue when they were released!
Hope this helps.
Rays did also say they could not recommend road usage due to the age of the wheel.
RegardsThese two photos were attached, proving that they definitely are the Xray wheel mentioned in the email. A great result for sure, although I can’t seem to find much about them on the internet at all! They can’t have been particularly popular Tim
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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I guess at the time everyone else was buying Revolution-stylee four-spokes? Lol at age-related warning ! Know anyone with an X-ray machine that can X-ray your errr... X-rays for stress fractures?
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niwid
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,743
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I guess at the time everyone else was buying Revolution-stylee four-spokes? Lol at age-related warning ! Know anyone with an X-ray machine that can X-ray your errr... X-rays for stress fractures? Possibly. It seems they were J market only, and not all that popular. I know! I was thinking, they may be 30 years old, but the wheels on the car are 36 years old, and have done 130k miles. I'm sure they'll be fine
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niwid
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,743
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I found another set on a website about Japanese wheels. Clicky They are set 245. MANUFACTURER: Rays Engineering MODEL: Xray CONFIRMED PRODUCTION YEARS: 1981, 1982 BOLT PATTERNS: 4X114.3 CONFIRMED SIZES: 14 6.5J +22 14 8J +0
AVAILABILITY: Extremely Rare COST: Mid
So, they are indeed extremely rare. They look fantastic with the extra 1/2 inch of width though, wish mine were 6.5s!
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