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Apr 26, 2014 20:33:54 GMT
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Sorry if this has been covered before, but i wanted a couple of answers at novice level for a quick blow over.
I'm going to be painting the boot, both rear quarters and rear bumpers on my vento. I bought it with slight rear end damage and a bit of rot, ive just pulled it straight and filled it to get me through summer.
Its lk7y, storm grey which is metallic grey. Ive bought a cheap gun, I'm not blending, just painting whole panels.
Ive seen half a litre of basecoat on ebay, do i just primer - basecoat - laquer? And is it 1k primer and 1k laquer i need?
Thanks, jay.
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Apr 27, 2014 18:51:49 GMT
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Not meaning to sound a nob but there's honestly no such thing as a "quick blow over", that's a propper grandad saying!!!!
As for your car there's a lot more involved than you think right now plus a bit more info is required.
The actual paint itself will require mixing cups,measuring cups, 2k thinners, not cheap rubbish as it contains water, hardener for the lacquer, an immaculately clean environment to get a reasonable finish, something to get that area really hot to bake the paint on, extraction to avoid the dust getting under the lacquer (which it 100% will unless you wet the booth floor).
I'm not sure how much prepping you've done so far but if your not at the stage of actual painting yet ie filler work/priming not done then there's tons if work ahead, you'll need various grades of sandpaper for your d/a orbital sander (assuming you've got one), wet and dry, red scotch pads, red stopper paste, primer, black aerosol to make a guide coat, panel wipe, paper towels, tack cloths, masking tape, loads of stuff.
I'd budget on at least £200 for materials set up and a bit more for the paint and no offence it will still turn out rubbish as your using cheap equipment and no doubt a compressor without a dryer which will cause your paint to microblister in the future.
You may think I'm being negative about this but I've owned my own bodyshop and its unbelievable how much people underestimate the work that goes into even the most basic of paint jobs and we haven't even started on the after work such as cutting and polishing etc.
If it's gonna be a one off save your money and get a pro to do it, if your planning on doing it regularly then get the best equipment you can afford and keep practicing.
It's not rocket science but its incredible how much can go wrong so quickly, reactions, really bad runs etc.
Good luck if you do to through with it.
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breng
Part of things
Posts: 223
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Apr 28, 2014 18:15:54 GMT
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Having started doing my SD1,I can vouch for how much work goes into a respray.
TBH I have stopped at the mo as I do not think I will be able to do a job that will make me happy with the car. I am considering my options.
It is like welding - 80% perpetration and needs a lot of patience.
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Apr 28, 2014 19:17:13 GMT
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cheapest way is to do the prep youself then take it to a paint shop and see if they think your prep is good enough to paint over ,3-4 hrs should be ample to paint and the shop will mix your colour and tint it to blend in with the rest of the car .
i prepped my camper and pulled all the glass and trim out so it was a simple mask up and paint job which cost me £500 including paint and was done in one day , doing all the prep saved me 2k
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Apr 30, 2014 19:00:45 GMT
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sand up the repairs with 180 , and the rest of the panel with 600
etch prime bare metal and filler prime the fillerwork /damage
sand the primer until its nice with 800 , repeat the primer if theres scratches or pits etc
base coat until its covered , then straight on with the clear after a 20 min flash off -don't sand the basecoat
as for 1k...well yeah its suited to home use , but 2k is the proper stuff
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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cheapest way is to do the prep youself then take it to a paint shop and see if they think your prep is good enough to paint over ,3-4 hrs should be ample to paint and the shop will mix your colour and tint it to blend in with the rest of the car . i prepped my camper and pulled all the glass and trim out so it was a simple mask up and paint job which cost me £500 including paint and was done in one day , doing all the prep saved me 2k Good advice. When I used to explain to customers their "quick blow over" involved most likely involves over 5 hours of actual strip down/reassembly at £40 an hour they look at you horrified. Often, more regular customers would bring in panels off the car to be painted which was easy money for us, saved them a fortune and it didn't clog the workshop up too long. I think if everyone had done that I'd still be in business!!!! |
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One thing though is its unlikely a bodyshop will mix up the paint for you as it's then likely to be waterbased which involves a lot of other work then and will cost a lot more money.
However there are advantages to water based such as no reactions, which is handy on older cars where your not 100% about the prep work.
Mad thing is though that you still need a solvent based lacquer to spray on top so the environmental savings are still questionable.
I've never witnessed this myself but I've heard on the grapevine that some paint supplies will no longer sell you solvent based unless your a regular trader which was talked about when I was in business 4 years ago.
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Not meaning to sound a nob but there's honestly no such thing as a "quick blow over", that's a propper grandad saying!!!! As for your car there's a lot more involved than you think right now plus a bit more info is required. The actual paint itself will require mixing cups,measuring cups, 2k thinners, not cheap rubbish as it contains water, hardener for the lacquer, an immaculately clean environment to get a reasonable finish, something to get that area really hot to bake the paint on, extraction to avoid the dust getting under the lacquer (which it 100% will unless you wet the booth floor). I'm not sure how much prepping you've done so far but if your not at the stage of actual painting yet ie filler work/priming not done then there's tons if work ahead, you'll need various grades of sandpaper for your d/a orbital sander (assuming you've got one), wet and dry, red scotch pads, red stopper paste, primer, black aerosol to make a guide coat, panel wipe, paper towels, tack cloths, masking tape, loads of stuff. I'd budget on at least £200 for materials set up and a bit more for the paint and no offence it will still turn out rubbish as your using cheap equipment and no doubt a compressor without a dryer which will cause your paint to microblister in the future. You may think I'm being negative about this but I've owned my own bodyshop and its unbelievable how much people underestimate the work that goes into even the most basic of paint jobs and we haven't even started on the after work such as cutting and polishing etc. If it's gonna be a one off save your money and get a pro to do it, if your planning on doing it regularly then get the best equipment you can afford and keep practicing. It's not rocket science but its incredible how much can go wrong so quickly, reactions, really bad runs etc. Good luck if you do to through with it. The reason why i called it a quick blow over, is because it is literally to get it one colour for the summer, it needs a new rear valence and rear corners welded in, which isnt going to happen now to winter. So i don't want a nice deep shine and a pro job, because i cant do that, i just want it silver instead of primer. Thanks for the advice though, just think you got the wrong end of the stick for what I'm trying to achieve. |
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If its a rough job your after mate just rattle can it as you'll be undoing all the good work if you try and paint it properly THEN do repairs afterwards. Rattle cans and a good g3 cut and polish can look pretty good.
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Cant get colour off shelf in rattle cans, so I'm looking at £15 a can, where as I'm looking at £15 for half litre of base. Annoying as if i could of got paint from halfords or like it would have been done by now.
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Hi, if you want it silver and are not worried it matching exactly, use wheel silver which will be on the shelf.
Colin
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Like Colin said, if you don't do a proper job (i.e. weld the corners and put the work into the prep as previously discussed) because you don't have time, then the paint colour won't match anyway, so it doesn't matter what colour silver you go for and hence might as well go for the cheapest silver you can find... Obviously, try to find a close match but really it will never be perfect...
Therefore, if you're happy mixing and spraying the cheap stuff from eBay - go wild - but it will need re-doing eventually.
So, in answer to the original question, any bare metal should be primed, other than that, go wild with the basecoat, I don't think you'll need a coat of lacquer because the basecoat will be waterproof and you'll likely not get a good enough finish to be worth bothering with lacquering it anyway...
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Do you know what, i didnt ask about the cheapest way to paint my car, or how to get a perfect pro finish, i asked about the procedure of bases and clearcoats while painting out of a gun.
This is a forum for people to work and modify there own cars, so answers of taking to a bodyshop, not doing it properly or just painting in wheel silver as it doesnt matter anyways insnt really encouraging nor does it meet the positive critria the forum isnt meant to be.
I'm going to buy the paint, use my gun and find out myself. If you see a vento with a mismatched paint job, feel free to mock me, look down on me or give me the finger if it bothers you that much, but don't worry, i wont ask another question.
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go for it mate,its all a learning curve anyway and if it comes out well you can stand back and say 'yeah,i did that'.if it turns out a bit rubbish you will have learned a bit for next time.
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too many toys..too little time...and usually too little money.
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Do you know what, i didnt ask about the cheapest way to paint my car, or how to get a perfect pro finish, i asked about the procedure of bases and clearcoats while painting out of a gun. This is a forum for people to work and modify there own cars, so answers of taking to a bodyshop, not doing it properly or just painting in wheel silver as it doesnt matter anyways insnt really encouraging nor does it meet the positive critria the forum isnt meant to be. I'm going to buy the paint, use my gun and find out myself. If you see a vento with a mismatched paint job, feel free to mock me, look down on me or give me the finger if it bothers you that much, but don't worry, i wont ask another question. Whooo!!....looks to me like people have answered the questions you asked. Take the advice given or not....your choice  |
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Do you know what, i didnt ask about the cheapest way to paint my car, or how to get a perfect pro finish, i asked about the procedure of bases and clearcoats while painting out of a gun. This is a forum for people to work and modify there own cars, so answers of taking to a bodyshop, not doing it properly or just painting in wheel silver as it doesnt matter anyways insnt really encouraging nor does it meet the positive critria the forum isnt meant to be. I'm going to buy the paint, use my gun and find out myself. If you see a vento with a mismatched paint job, feel free to mock me, look down on me or give me the finger if it bothers you that much, but don't worry, i wont ask another question. Whooo!!....looks to me like people have answered the questions you asked. Take the advice given or not....your choice Read my first post. I asked about the process of primer base and laquer. That was it. I don't think you have contributed anything to this thread, so don't come in to stir. |
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Theres a lot of unhelpful curse word clogging up this thread..
There are cheap, cost effective ways to paint and corners that can be cut to save time and money while reducing quality and longevity.. Still being worthwhile for some. And suits some budgets.
If you want some practical, REAL, advice.. Send me a PM.
...
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Paintwork, Fabrication, Performance Work, Engine Transplants, Part Fitting, Banded Steelies, Stretched Tyre Fitting, Wheel Refurbs - Compete Resprays from £450..
Search ''Firefly Speedshop'' on facebook! or Garage communities on Retro Rides!
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Plenty of excellent advice on this thread, up to the op if he chooses to accept it.
To answer your original question spray on your primer mixed at 4:1 or whatever it says on the tin, you'll need the good 2k thinners though as a minimum. Litre of primer would be more than adequate.
Put your guide coat on, a light spray of black aerosol, then start rubbing down until the guide coat is on and a nice smooth finish.
Dry it all off, panel wipe it as clean as you possibly can (to avoid reactions). Mix up your base as per instructions, won't need much on that, spray it evenly with several light coats, don't forget to spray any repaired areas first as they'll need more coverage. Mix lacquer again as per instructions and if I were you put a relatively heavy first coat on, you'll most likely get runs, but there easily corrected. When it gets tacky, ie your glove sticks to the lacquer (try on a masked off piece obviously) then shove on your second coat and leave to dry. Don't be tempted to pull off the masking etc until at least the next day, if not longer. My guess is you'll have runs, it's ok, but be gentle cutting back at first as the paints still soft, if you can live with it, leave it a few days. A good cut and polish saves a lot of poor paint jobs, its a really important part of the process, if you don't have one a "mop" is a fantastic tool, get some g3, plenty of water and practice.
I'm not sure these are the things you really want to hear but that's a quick procedure on how to get going, although there's really a hell of a lot more to it, loads of hidden costs if you fancy going this route.
As an aside, my local paintshop would make up any can colour I wanted for under a tenner a can. When you think of all the bits and bobs you need, hardener, lacquer, thinners etc it does make sense to rattle can it and I wasn't messing when I said with a good cut and polish the results can be excellent.
Whatever you do, I can assure you that I'm only offering genuine advice, not being critical or unhelpful. I honestly had 5 youngish (sorry to be ageist) lads come in a month wanting stuff done on their cars thinking it was all a 2 minute job which any old drongo could do. Inevitabley when we quoted them, they couldn't afford it or their mates said it was an easy thing to do. All bar none came out abysmally, cost them 3 times more than they thought and most importantly totally devalued their cars.
Food for thought, but up to you to digest it.
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Ive seen half a litre of basecoat on ebay, do i just primer - basecoat - laquer? And is it 1k primer and 1k laquer i need? Thanks, jay. Whooo!!....looks to me like people have answered the questions you asked. Take the advice given or not....your choice Read my first post. I asked about the process of primer base and laquer. That was it. I don't think you have contributed anything to this thread, so don't come in to stir. Further to other answers, and in summary; 1) "do i just primer - basecoat - laquer?" - Yes 2) "And is it 1k primer and 1k laquer i need?" - Depends on the paint. You've not provided a link to the eBay auction so further advice cannot be offered to answer this question. If you'd wanted further information about the actual process of spraying, mixing paint, panel preparation and so on you should have asked a different question. Even though you got those answers as well you then chose to be rude to people who answered the questions you didn't ask but wanted the answers to anyway... and they offered their advice from their viewpoint and their experience for free to try to help... |
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I've just come across this thread looking for "how to do it properly" and I will be the first to admit I gave it a go... and tbh I'm very glad I did. I didn't prep the surface well enough, I mixed the paint up a little wrong, bought cheap ebay paint in the wrong colour... ...but it worked... I will admit it wasn't great, but it covered the car and I liked it, nothing beats the satisfaction of saying I did that, its like taking a picture home when your 3... lets face it, the picture is rubbish, but you did it. My advice, read as much online as possible, spray patterns, google is great (mostly) and enjoy it, just don't breath too much in... This is how mine turned out, on closer inspection it doesnt look great, but hey I was happy...  Go for it!!! and post some pictures when your done!!! |
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