Peugeot 205 Diesel Non Starter

[andyborris]

And it's not the glow plugs! Has all the classic signs of dead glow plugs, won't start from cold, but will easily fire once warm and then runs fine.

Changed the plugs, fitted quality German ones too, checked the voltage on the feed wire, it's a healthy 12.5 volts and now I'm stumped!

Still very poor starting from cold, but fine from warm and only takes a few seconds to run "cleanly". This problem has only appeared after a garage fitted a new timing belt, water pump and alternator belt, but I can't see how that would suddenly turn the car from one that started easily, no matter the weather, into one that struggles to start!

Thanks for your suggestions.

[vitesseefi]

Pump timing retarded will make cold starts harder. Not sure about the 205 but many modernish diesels only use the glowplugs if the ambient is less than something like 6 - 8ºC. Suspect garage may not have timed it correctly.

Nick

[andyborris]

Would'nt that affect the drivabilty? It seems to drive as well as ever!

[welshpug]

Doesn't take much really though there is no adjustment that would be altered when doing the belt, on a bosch pump the adjustment is done by rotating the pump body on its mountings and the lucas pump is an internal adjustment.

Could also be an air leak if they disturbed any of the pipework, when warm the air will have been bled out from its recent starting effort.

[ChasR]

Yes it would. I would still check the cam/pump timing however.

Have you checked the cold start cable adjustment, that can make a big difference how they start.

One thing I would try would be to pump the primer/grenade until it is rock hard. If it starts on the button then your problem is almost certainly a duff one way valve in the grenade. IIRC they are not available from Peugeot. Some aftermarket ones do not come with the one way valve. On a car at work taking our chances on a secondhand grenade saw it working fine again.

[welshpug]

they are still available from peugeot, and also any motorfactor, with one way valve in them.

however the lucas pumped 205's tended to have a remote cartridge filter assembly which are known to leak, they have a primer button in the top which rarely works, not the element type in the plastic pot bolted ontop of the thermostat housing like the later XUD's with the separate priming grenade.

[andyborris]

It's one of last 205's made I believe and it has a rubber "grenade" to prime it. Not sure how I tell the difference between Lucas and Bosch.

As I said above, the car runs fine once started and only takes a few seconds, once it catches, to settle down. Would I see diesel leaks if I have an air leak?

I will try the "pump it up" in the morning.

Thanks

[ChasR]

Jul 6, 2014 19:28:35 GMT welshpug said:

they are still available from peugeot, and also any motorfactor, with one way valve in them.

however the lucas pumped 205's tended to have a remote cartridge filter assembly which are known to leak, they have a primer button in the top which rarely works, not the element type in the plastic pot bolted ontop of the thermostat housing like the later XUD's with the separate priming grenade.

I was under the impression that 205 spares were drying up from Peugeot. Certainly when I have called up for a few parts I have been given the NLA confirmation .

As for the Grenades I was under the impression that from the dealer you had to buy the entire fuel line with it as well, quite economically unviable on a 205 or 306 (which is what I wanted it for). Yes you can get the Laser branded grenades but I found some of them did not come with a 1 way valve (or an effective one) or that despite the fittings being the correct diameter they would still leak (God I remember wreaking of diesel when priming a 407 2.0 HDI in order to get the wretched thing to start).

I never knew that about the early Lucas filters. Weren't the later ones (306s with the thermostat housing?) also known to leak? I know that mine was not great (and neither were the 407s!). I also did not that the seal on the Mann filters was not quite as great as the genuine/Purflux items mind you.

[andyborris]

Tried pumping up the "grenade" before starting the car this morning and it burst into life on the first spin after the glowplug light went out!

So either air in fuel system from the cam change or the grenade has just decided to die at the same time as the belt change!

So to replace the one way valve, I need to change the grenade? While I'm getting a skin rash from the diesel fuel, good idea to change the filter too?
And how to bleed the fuel system?

Can you tell I've no experience with diesels?

Thanks for helping me solve this!

[andyborris]

And this is the grenade? EBAY LINK

[discostu]

As said, try undoing the pump mountings until you can just move the pump, and twisting the top of the pump towards the rear of the car until you find a sweet spot. I had exactly the same issue on a 306td with a Lucas pump after pump/belt change and sorted it in ten minutes

[ChasR]

Jul 7, 2014 20:35:10 GMT andyborris said:

And this is the grenade? EBAY LINK

Yes it should but ensure that the diameter of the pipe is correct (Welshpug should know this ).

I would also check the lid of your fuel filter housing. That is a another place XUDs can draw in air. On both a 407 at work (with the DW10 engine) and my 306 with the XUD9TE engine the pair of them had a combination of the above. The 407 after enough head scratching became a reliable starter (initially the one way valve was duff, then the fuel filter housing decided to start letting air in causing quite awkward starts on a common rail diesel!).

On a derv it does not hurt to change the fuel filter but ensure that it is filled with diesel before the cap is put back on. IIRC the XUDs have a bleed off point on the fuel pump or at least on the Lucas pumps.

[froggy]

Are you getting the amperage to heat the glow plugs ?

[andyborris]

Jul 8, 2014 11:58:30 GMT froggy said:

Are you getting the amperage to heat the glow plugs ?

To be honest, I haven't checked this, but because a few pumps on the "grenade" gets it starting on the first turn of the key, I reckon that's my problem.

And I probably changed the glow plugs for nothing, (except the £40ish they cost)!

Every day is a school day, just wish I the fees were smaller......

And thanks everyone.