JC
Part of things
Posts: 815
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Jul 27, 2014 10:49:03 GMT
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I'm assuming the cossie v6 is 2nd fave on the poll because it is a safe bolt in job, unlike a v8. But having gone to the trouble of fitting a different engine, you'll be gutted when the neighbors diesel vectra wastes you. A v8 will put a smile on your face everyday, a turbo 4 pot like the nissan option would make a quick car, or perhaps some form of turbo diesel would fit the bill? Yeah, I do keep coming back to that! I think that big bay deserves to be filled by more than 4 cylinders really. Surprised that 200bhp isn't enough for people, it's basically double that of a standard pinto! Does the extra weight really negate that so badly? It does also look damn ugly compared to a V8 too. I think the points are really stacking up in the V8's favour. Anyone know of a good place to get a small block from? Most of the common forums I frequent don't seem to cater well for them, googling hasn't given me much, and not sure I trust ebay enough for that! Zetec/Duratec turbo could be interesting, will have a look into that. V6 Duratec.... might be worth considering if it's easy to get it working RWD, will look into that too.
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Last Edit: Jul 27, 2014 10:53:04 GMT by JC
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Jul 27, 2014 11:02:59 GMT
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V6 Duratec.... might be worth considering if it's easy to get it working RWD, will look into that too. Thats a S type V6
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Capri Engine SwapDez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Jul 27, 2014 11:32:26 GMT
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a lot of the options touted here are rubbish at best. pintos? archaic 25 years ago, i don't know why anyone bothers with them at all anymore when its so easy to bolt a zetec in their place. BOA? produces surprisingly little power given its size, and is difficult to tune. RV8? underpowered and expensive compared to american v8s. american v8s? archaic designs, can be made to produce good power quite cheaply, but heavy and terrible on fuel.
to me, youre looking at the wrong type of fuel for starters. merc or bmw straight 6 dervs are capable for more power than anything mentioned here other than the yb or the sbf with nothing more than a mild remap, but will still give you 40+ mpg. if not more in a light car. yeah youd have to throw a bit of money at mapping and maybe wiring (which isnt actually that hard, just takes time thinning down looms, etc.) but youll end up with power, economy and reliability, for not a lot of outlay. you can easily buy a good donor car 500 quid, nd see return on that breaking/weighing in the leftovers.
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JC
Part of things
Posts: 815
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Jul 27, 2014 13:31:01 GMT
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a lot of the options touted here are rubbish at best. pintos? archaic 25 years ago, i don't know why anyone bothers with them at all anymore when its so easy to bolt a zetec in their place. BOA? produces surprisingly little power given its size, and is difficult to tune. RV8? underpowered and expensive compared to american v8s. american v8s? archaic designs, can be made to produce good power quite cheaply, but heavy and terrible on fuel. to me, youre looking at the wrong type of fuel for starters. merc or bmw straight 6 dervs are capable for more power than anything mentioned here other than the yb or the sbf with nothing more than a mild remap, but will still give you 40+ mpg. if not more in a light car. yeah youd have to throw a bit of money at mapping and maybe wiring (which isnt actually that hard, just takes time thinning down looms, etc.) but youll end up with power, economy and reliability, for not a lot of outlay. you can easily buy a good donor car 500 quid, nd see return on that breaking/weighing in the leftovers. Pintos are on there cos they're staunchly defended by retro-ford drivers, and it's the lump that's already in there - so makes sense from an ease and cost POV, along with availability of tuning parts and advice. RV8 I've never been all that keen on, but they do seem a common conversion and seem easily avialable. I think if that got highest votes though, I'd be a little disappointed actually. American V8 cos in my eyes the capri was meant to be a muscle car, so nothing should suit it better. Diesels sound interesting, but imagine it will be a whole lot more complicated? I'm no mechanical genius, don't want to bite off more than I can chew!
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Jul 27, 2014 14:11:21 GMT
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a lot of the options touted here are rubbish at best. pintos? archaic 25 years ago, i don't know why anyone bothers with them at all anymore when its so easy to bolt a zetec in their place. BOA? produces surprisingly little power given its size, and is difficult to tune. RV8? underpowered and expensive compared to american v8s. american v8s? archaic designs, can be made to produce good power quite cheaply, but heavy and terrible on fuel. to me, youre looking at the wrong type of fuel for starters. merc or bmw straight 6 dervs are capable for more power than anything mentioned here other than the yb or the sbf with nothing more than a mild remap, but will still give you 40+ mpg. if not more in a light car. yeah youd have to throw a bit of money at mapping and maybe wiring (which isnt actually that hard, just takes time thinning down looms, etc.) but youll end up with power, economy and reliability, for not a lot of outlay. you can easily buy a good donor car 500 quid, nd see return on that breaking/weighing in the leftovers. Thats nice , everyones opinion is rubbish - because you don't agree with it . The OP asked for peoples views , so they were given .
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Jul 27, 2014 14:12:41 GMT
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tbh, if you get an older derv, with a mech pump - they need literally one wire to get them going. Later ones need an ECU to run, so akin to a fuel injected petrol (wiring-wise), but without the HT leads/coil packs.
Couple of things you may be pushing to the back of the list however:
Gearbox tunnel: Will the donor engine/gearbox fit? I had to chop the scimitar tunnel about to fit an R380, and the bulkhead
Propshaft: unless you're amazingly lucky, you WILL need a custom propshaft made. Donor shafts from both the axle and gearbox sides will be needed - best outsourced IMO
Speedo: Needed to pass the MOT. Most new-ish gearboxes have electronic transducers, whilst I'm guessing your capri uses a cable drive? In which case, using the donor clocks may be the best option (also means the rev counter will be usable)
Gearstick position: Will it be close to the normal position, or will it end up embedded in the dash, or will you need a passenger on the back seat to change gears for you? Often tweakable, but worth researching before you start cutting.
Tuning: is the ECU easily remapped?- Do you need to factor in the cost of socketing the ECU, and having to physically change a chip (not really a biggie, but some may charge the earth to do a relatively simple job) Or can it be remapped over OBD, which means fitting an OBD port into the interior. May even be able to use a bluetooth OBD adaptor, and use the Torque app on an android phone - you can check most sensors, boost, etc.
so personally, as long as you're confident with your wiring skills (or willing to learn) go for a slightly later diesel for power/refinement. Early diesel for simplicity - but often lower power/refinement
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You're like a crazy backyard genius!
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JC
Part of things
Posts: 815
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Jul 27, 2014 14:46:43 GMT
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On the subject of diesels - don't they sound a bit pants compared to a v6 or v8 petrol? I don't think I'd want a naff sounding engine even if it did save me some fuel money. Overall, I don't want to go into anything too complicated. Tried and tested, easy to get parts, easy to work on when it breaks. I think that's keeping the cossie v6 on the list really, there's literally dozens of people I could ask if I needed to, and 200bhp doesn't sound bad to me! Think YB is off the list if only due to costs. V6 Duratec.... might be worth considering if it's easy to get it working RWD, will look into that too. Thats a S type V6 Forgot to reply to this earlier - oops! so it is, derp, getting myself confused now!
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Jul 27, 2014 15:12:58 GMT
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Just curious jc but what kind of budget do you have in mind for a complete conversion ??
May make it very easy in terms of doner selection ?? Only asking as some people's ideas on cheap aren't the same as others ??
A valid point here really is the fact that a lot of suggestions made would need some fabrication work done such as if fitting a dirty v8 would imagine there to be tunnel mods ,bulkhead mods done Fitting injection tank with fuel return if going injected route Clutch setup if doner engine is hydro ?? Like I say its not just about slapping a different package in
As stuff like shell mods will easily soak up 1k plus So in long run makes a yb ,zetec turbo , or pinto turbo a more viable option in long run in terms of cost As wouldn't need much modding to suit
Hence me asking what you would be happy budgeting for ??
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Jul 27, 2014 15:16:51 GMT
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tbh, if you get an older derv, with a mech pump - they need literally one wire to get them going. Later ones need an ECU to run, so akin to a fuel injected petrol (wiring-wise), but without the HT leads/coil packs. Couple of things you may be pushing to the back of the list however: Gearbox tunnel: Will the donor engine/gearbox fit? I had to chop the scimitar tunnel about to fit an R380, and the bulkhead Propshaft: unless you're amazingly lucky, you WILL need a custom propshaft made. Donor shafts from both the axle and gearbox sides will be needed - best outsourced IMO Speedo: Needed to pass the MOT. Most new-ish gearboxes have electronic transducers, whilst I'm guessing your capri uses a cable drive? In which case, using the donor clocks may be the best option (also means the rev counter will be usable) Gearstick position: Will it be close to the normal position, or will it end up embedded in the dash, or will you need a passenger on the back seat to change gears for you? Often tweakable, but worth researching before you start cutting. Tuning: is the ECU easily remapped?- Do you need to factor in the cost of socketing the ECU, and having to physically change a chip (not really a biggie, but some may charge the earth to do a relatively simple job) Or can it be remapped over OBD, which means fitting an OBD port into the interior. May even be able to use a bluetooth OBD adaptor, and use the Torque app on an android phone - you can check most sensors, boost, etc. so personally, as long as you're confident with your wiring skills (or willing to learn) go for a slightly later diesel for power/refinement. Early diesel for simplicity - but often lower power/refinement Plus just to add without pouring water on anyone's fire, what does your insurance company say about it?. ( for instance when I binned the TD out go my LR 110, my insurance was ok my fitting a Rover Eight in place,as Land Rover actually produced a V8 version....)
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JC
Part of things
Posts: 815
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Jul 27, 2014 15:50:08 GMT
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Hmmm, both good points, hadn't considered insurance at all, I'd better check that! Budget - £1-2k I think, was hoping towards the lower end of that scale though but realise it might not be realistic for any! Or am I still being naive there?
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Jul 27, 2014 19:22:14 GMT
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Personally with that sort of money to play with would build a pinto turbo ,zetec turbo or failing that as last resort a 24v Cossy motor
Sure you could easily squeeze those in within your budget mate and have a good motor too
Pinto turbo ad zetec turbo can be shrewdly put together for less than 1k and spend the other 1k on management and any other odds and sods Think that's the route I'd go with your budget IMHO
At least if building pinto turbo you have the base to start with
Coincidentally have a low comp crank rods and pistons for a 2.0 pi to turbo build here
T3 turbo £100 Exhaust manifold can be made for around £100 using 200sx manifold Some transit low comp pistons £50-100 Exhaust modded and made to suit £100
Sump will need modding for turbo oil return Can use r5gtt carb if you don't fancy the hassle of going Injection but will hinder you in terms of management
Crank trigger wheel will be needed if efi And lastly Engine management £400
That's most of the basics covered for that conversion and under 1k so fits in at lower end of your budget and leaves you money for all the niggly bits
Running 6-7 psi of boost would imagine you should see an easy 200bhp and more depending on your pockets
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Jul 27, 2014 19:32:40 GMT
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Some vids to wet your appetite As you can see plenty of s£)ts and giggles for your money
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Jul 27, 2014 20:05:46 GMT
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Or you could go for the bulletproof bottom end , cossie crank, rods , pistons . EFI sierra head and injection . I reckon you could do that for less than £1200 easy .
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Jul 27, 2014 20:50:38 GMT
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Yep as bobble says although will be a bit dearer for Cossy crank and rods but well worth it IMHO as they are steel So will be bullet proof also have some Cossy rods for sale aswell haha Would also need the 9 bolt flywheel tho if using Cossy crank
To be fair my mate uses std pinto crank but with Cossy rods and his held up to some a use for well over year and half so far although had to get the flywheel dowelled tho
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Jul 27, 2014 21:51:45 GMT
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Find an old bmw 540 with a manual box, 280bhp with german reliability. don't bother with the cossie v6, too heavy and gutless.
I know a bit about fitting the 540i V8, can't say it was that easy or that reliable bmwv8capri.yolasite.com/
Can I ask what you found unreliable? I've got 3 hard used bmw v8's here, none have had any mechanical problems yet. 2 are fitted to e30's running the factory bosch managment, the 3rd is still in it's 7 series home.
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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Jul 27, 2014 21:58:56 GMT
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On the subject of diesels - don't they sound a bit pants compared to a v6 or v8 petrol? I don't think I'd want a naff sounding engine even if it did save me some fuel money. My daily driver. 40mpg, 508bhp, 557lbft, and a monstrous screaming turbo. Sounds like a cross between a jet and toyota supra. I think that would make your capri move rather well.
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Last Edit: Jul 27, 2014 22:04:42 GMT by carat 3.6
1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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Jul 27, 2014 22:22:58 GMT
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Looks a beast that carat certainly looks like it starts to pull well from 3800 onwards and what turbo is on that then and what a/r housings ?? Bet that's lots of s£)ts and giggles with that amount of torque
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Jul 27, 2014 22:46:54 GMT
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Looks a beast that carat certainly looks like it starts to pull well from 3800 onwards and what turbo is on that then and what a/r housings ?? Bet that's lots of s£)ts and giggles with that amount of torque Thanks, you start to feel the power at around 3200 which is a bit laggy, but she has a close ratio 6 speed manual box so the lag isnt as bad as it sounds. The turbo is a modified borg warner s300, a/r is 0.91 I think. It is quite a handful as the suspension and brakes aren't really man enough yet, does surprise a few people on a fast cross country road. Anyway back on topic. The the merc om606 engine used has 177bhp as standard, which is plenty for a capri on a budget. Buy a e300 turbodiesel from ebay for $500 and swap everything into the capri, the downside is they all come with an auto box to keep the ecu happy.
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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Jul 27, 2014 23:00:36 GMT
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Is the borg Warner your using a twin scroll setup then ?? And you considered a smaller hot side to eliminate some lag ?? Either way looks a punchy setup Also a nice smooth power curve looks set up well
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Is the borg Warner your using a twin scroll setup then ?? And you considered a smaller hot side to eliminate some lag ?? Either way looks a punchy setup Also a nice smooth power curve looks set up well It is a twin scroll housing, but I've still got the standard exhaust manifold on there so no benefit yet. It needs a new manifold making to divide cyls 1-3 from 4-6, that should help spool up. The exhaust side is sized like that to keep exhaust pressure high, the manifold is restrictive so it does help spool up.
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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