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Sept 1, 2014 15:38:45 GMT
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some of the most well-loved cars & threads on this forum (i won't name them here as they might not appreciate it) use original reg & V5 with a severely chopped/modified or new chassis, (& axles/brakes/engine that don't add up to 8 points) - understandably because they wouldn't go through IVA without compromise, plus losing tax exempt status.
There will be those who queue up to abide by rules and those who flaunt them, ultimately the individual car owner chooses how to interpret rules in relation to how well the government can enforce them out on the road.
If you want to draw a line in the sand and say that a severely modified chassis or less than 8 points = Q-plate, then those unnamed popular projects are just as illegal as Mr Barnzey's.
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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Sept 1, 2014 15:43:20 GMT
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^^ Indeed, it is the individuals choice, and ultimately, responsibilty to make whatever their decision may be.
Unfortunately problems also occur when that vehicle in question is sold on to another (unsuspecting) owner. That, in no uncertain terms, is fraud!
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Sept 1, 2014 20:08:41 GMT
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Just garage it for a few months. There's rumours the vic check will be scrapped next year anyway to cut costs.
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Sept 1, 2014 20:22:45 GMT
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Cut costs? I doubt it, Probably a nice little earner for the government.
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Sept 1, 2014 20:58:26 GMT
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Sept 1, 2014 21:09:53 GMT
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Am I missing something here? Has the car "existed" or not? If its been a Cat C write off then, it would seem, the car has been on the road, insured and legal. Is there any ID whatsoever on the MX5 chassis?
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Rich G
Posted a lot
Keyboard Worrier
Posts: 1,059
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Sept 1, 2014 21:13:06 GMT
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One possible way - borrow a very helpful friend's original '68 Austin, attach your chassis plates, use that car for the MOT and VIC. Then put it all back and buy him lots of beers. Possibly one of the most stupid posts I've seen on here for a long time! As a side note, Bob Petersen's epic creations (top gear 24litre Bentley) use rather modified 1930s chassis on original reg. Are they illegal? That depends on when it was built - post introduction of SVA/BIVA the only way to retain the original registration number is to stay within the DVLA's 8-point scheme the basis of which is an unmodified chassis / monocoque which gives you 5 points and is mandatory. Barnzey - if you're using all the running gear from the MX5 (and you have the V5 for that) you needn't end up with a Q-plate, you could get an age related plate related to the year of the MX5. As said Kapri is the man to talk to. Have a look here to see what can get through BIVA... www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/licensing-legal-section/photos-cars-trucks-have-been-bivad-207553Had a Mk2 A40 about 15 years ago, nice little cars - yours has lots of potential!!
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Possibly one of the most stupid posts I've seen on here for a long time! As a side note, Bob Petersen's epic creations (top gear 24litre Bentley) use rather modified 1930s chassis on original reg. Are they illegal? That depends on when it was built - post introduction of SVA/BIVA the only way to retain the original registration number is to stay within the DVLA's 8-point scheme the basis of which is an unmodified chassis / monocoque which gives you 5 points and is mandatory. Barnzey - if you're using all the running gear from the MX5 (and you have the V5 for that) you needn't end up with a Q-plate, you could get an age related plate related to the year of the MX5. yes you could say it has 9 points from the mazda running gear, but an age-related plate application requires the vehicle to be in original specification (and somebody from an owners club has to come and check it) so that wouldn't work. The MX5 running gear isn't a structural backbone chassis (although from some angles it looks like one) - it gets it strength from the monocoque MX5 shell, so in this case the body/chassis unit is Austin, albeit modified. www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehiclesMost interpretations of those rules is that a machine like this should really be destined for IVA & Q-plate. But many individuals choose to trundle around on their original reg when they are under 8 points (in full knowledge of the rules). So if the OP's car hadn't had a prang and become cat-C then he might never have run into this reg. legality connundrum. You're welcome to deem my advice stupid, but it's probably the only way the OP could pass the VIC to get his '68 V5c back.
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 983
Club RR Member Number: 13
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If you try to register it as Austin you've got no chance. Technically if you try to register it as the original MX5 it's only clocked up 5 lost points for the body being changed. However, what will probably get you is this, "Get a ‘Q’ registration number ... You won’t be able to keep your vehicle’s original registration number if one of the following applies ... there’s evidence that 2 vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie ‘cut and shut’)" because you've got an MX5 transmission tunnel and its suspension turret panels welding onto the Austin shell.
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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You're welcome to deem my advice stupid, but it's probably the only way the OP could pass the VIC to get his '68 V5c back. You do know what a VIC is don't you?! A Vehicle IDENTITY Check. There is absolutely no way that this car would be identified as a genuine Austin 1300(?) unless Stevie Wonder was doing the check, there's too much of it missing!
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Last Edit: Sept 2, 2014 9:01:41 GMT by MrSpeedy
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One possible way - borrow a very helpful friend's original '68 Austin, attach your chassis plates, use that car for the MOT and VIC. Then put it all back and buy him lots of beers. "Follow the gourd!" "No, let us gather shoes together!" i'll get my coat...
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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Yeah right!
I'm all for bending the rules a bit, but that's just taking the p1ss
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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The VIC will throw up the fact that it is a melange of Austin/MX5 and then i strongly suspect you'd be pointed towards IVA test & Q-plate application. One possible way - borrow a very helpful friend's original '68 Austin, attach your chassis plates, use that car for the MOT and VIC. Then put it all back and buy him lots of beers. Good luck with it and try not to listen to people who say "this vehicle is illegal" As a side note, Bob Petersen's epic creations (top gear 24litre Bentley) use rather modified 1930s chassis on original reg. Are they illegal? Have you ever personally had a VIC check done? Switching plates will NOT work, the VOSA official caused minor damage to the paintwork on my car to verify I hadn't tampered with the VIN number stamped in the scuttle in the original paintwork. If they suspect you're trying to pull a fast one, expect the police to be involved and your life made very difficult, all clearly stated in the letters and forms I had from them. Yes there are lots of us who have vehicles that would fail a VIC and be sent towards IVA, and the vast majority had started the work/modifications long before they found out about the current legislation as it's still a widely held belief you can build anything and just mot it. What you don't see are people making efforts to make their cars IVA compliant. What many of the posters in this thread are doing is repeating the current legislation not just for the OP, but anyone else reading this thread to help correct the misinformed and help ensure that this hobby is not outlawed. We are lucky to have been treated very leniently compared to other countries, the less reasons we give the authorities to take attention the better.
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Have you ever personally had a VIC check done? Point accepted, had checks for age-related plates, but not VIC. So what would you advise the OP to do, or what would you do in a similar situation?
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Have you ever personally had a VIC check done? Point accepted, had checks for age-related plates, but not VIC. So what would you advise the OP to do, or what would you do in a similar situation? As the OP states he wanted it as a cheap to run toy, I'd say punt it on to someone else with no official ID, just the donor ID's on the assumption it needs significant work to make 100% registered road legal. If he wanted to go the official route himself, download the relevant IVA manual, get reading and expect to have to plow more money and time into it to comply with the rules and the cost of the test, registration and road tax etc. There simply isn't any legal way it would ever retain tax exempt status unless it's built and he waits 40 years assuming they continue the rolling tax exemption that long! The only way of retaining tax exempt status would be to get another Austin bodyshell and maybe with luck some of the MX5 running gear and suspension could be modified to bolt onto the original unmodified Austin bodyshell. Personally having a car that already falls into the grey void of it should technically go through the IVA, I'm planning further modifications that would make it compliant, and also future-proof it for further modifications.
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Sept 3, 2014 10:55:15 GMT
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I have nothing useful to add, other than to say that it looks like a decent project, and should be a lot of very practical fun once its all sorted..... got any more pics of the build?
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Current fleet: '58 A35 (half mine) '67 11 window splitscreen vw (half mine) '77 mini 1000 (not quite 1000 any more!!) '86 Armstrong MT500 '89 XR4X4 '94 Corrado VR6 Some sort of sevenesque kit car (no age yet!!) '01 Mondeo estate 2.0 (engine eventually destined for kit car!) - scrapped, engine only left! '98 E300 estate, rusty but seemingly reliable, fast-ish tat hauler. eventual engine donor A35 van, or whats left of it after it lived in a field for many years
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Sept 3, 2014 20:50:58 GMT
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There is another way. The 'Single donor vehicle' build, where you take all of the running gear from on vehicle and bolt it into a purpose built chassis/body. Usually Mini or VW based kits apply. The thing is, the body/chassis dosn't have to be new. So, say for example, someone had built a 'replica' 1968 Austin A40 shell designed to take unmodified MX5 running gear, then the 'single donor vehicle' would be the MX5. IIRC, BIVA does then not apply, but the MX5 identity is changed to reflect what the bodyshell is, in a similar way to BIVA identities i.e. no copywrighted names, so you could have a John Special etc. Worth looking into, again ACE or Kapri on Rods n Sods shoud shed some light
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Thanks for all your help guys. Ive finally got round to listen the Austin on ebay, I've started a new job so i literally don't have the time to tackle the issues this car faces.
Ive been 100% up front about the situation of the car, i hope someone buys this who has the knowhow of the legal system...
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Have you ever personally had a VIC check done? Point accepted, had checks for age-related plates, but not VIC. So what would you advise the OP to do, or what would you do in a similar situation? If the VIC test is done away with next year then isn't the easiest course of action simply to put it in storage until the law has changed and then present it for an MOT?
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Last Edit: Oct 5, 2014 16:15:18 GMT by mrabody
1995 Range Rover 4.0 1995 BMW 320i Saloon 1989 BMW 325i Touring 1991 Mercedes 300TE-24 1991 Mercedes 190e 1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom 1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
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Maybe so, but i don't have the space to do this, and i doubt ill have the circumstance when the time comes. Its change of circumstance thats killed the project for me as much as anything else, id happily be going down the kit car route if i was in the same position i was in 6 months ago :-(
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