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This is a TECHNICAL section. Quite honestly i think those that have no technical understanding or don't want to listen to those that do should kindly use the door. Being constantly harassed by clueless idiots telling you to 'put the spanner down or you will hurt someone' is getting tedious. I suppose you know everything about anything then.. I was under the impression that the tech section was to ask for advice on a car/mod/people's experience. ..not to be slated by other members when they make a mistake or don't have ££££ falling out there curse word to buy fancy suspension. ..
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craig1010cc
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,993
Club RR Member Number: 35
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bouncy cut springs craig1010cc
@craig1010cc
Club Retro Rides Member 35
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As with all work carried out on cars (and most things), if it is done correctly (and there are correct ways of chopping springs and getting a safe and acceptable ride) it is fine, but done incorectly it is dangerous. Using your sill analogy, even if you chop out the rot, get a new sill and reach for the welder, if you don't know what you are doing with the welder your still potentailly going to end up with a dangerously weakened car (or dangerous if you are welding near suspension mounts). I have had 2 cars I have chopped the springs on and the springs seated fine, where retainined on full droop and the ride was acceptable to me (no worse than my old MX5 on budget coilovers), but I have also had one that I brought pre-chopped. When I looked under it to investgate a knocking, it was a death trap due to the way the person who modified it (not who I brought it from) had done it Thats exactely the problem i find when people give advice on chopped springs , at least with proper springs and shock you know the person is going to be safe , not doing some dangerous butchery job . Some people have zero concept of anything practical and i think giving people the green light to hack away at stuff is irresponsible . Cutting a hole in your damper and putting a bolt in there is just lunacy when it comes to advice . And as usual its the chaps that think they now it all who shout everyone down . And why do some people only snipe at others or post snide remarks VIP ? Lets face it , its certainly safer having a proper package and there is no arguing with that . You seem to have missed my point, you CAN safely chop springs, but like all work on a car you need to know what you are doing. Fitting -60mm lowering springs on stock shocks is likely to be as bad a ride and result in the shocks bottoming out as lopping a couple of coils. You are right that a matched lowering kit is the best way to lower a car,
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Thats exactely the problem i find when people give advice on chopped springs , at least with proper springs and shock you know the person is going to be safe , not doing some dangerous butchery job . Some people have zero concept of anything practical and i think giving people the green light to hack away at stuff is irresponsible . Cutting a hole in your damper and putting a bolt in there is just lunacy when it comes to advice . And as usual its the chaps that think they now it all who shout everyone down . And why do some people only snipe at others or post snide remarks VIP ? Lets face it , its certainly safer having a proper package and there is no arguing with that . You seem to have missed my point, you CAN safely chop springs, but like all work on a car you need to know what you are doing. Fitting -60mm lowering springs on stock shocks is likely to be as bad a ride and result in the shocks bottoming out as lopping a couple of coils. You are right that a matched lowering kit is the best way to lower a car, Yes , you can chop them safely , of cause , but whether the spring is better or as good as a proper lowered spring , with progressive poundage ? Not in my opinion and that would be what i would recommend to anyone wanting to know . Each to there own but that is my view .
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,713
Club RR Member Number: 34
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bouncy cut springs Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Cutting a hole in your damper and putting a bolt in there is just lunacy when it comes to advice . I'm sure various major motor manufactuers including ford ford would be interested in your expert opinion, given they did this for about 30 years worth of production to allow units to be servicable before they developed damper oil that was sufficiently stable to allow units to be sealed for life.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,840
Club RR Member Number: 174
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bouncy cut springs stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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LOL at lunacy advice. Have you ever done it? I guess not. I have, quite a lot as it happens. Its not dangerous, it isn't gonna kill the kittens.
Your technical knowhow seems to extend to being able to bolt bits on because people say its better without actually knowing why.
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I think there is a differnece between having a proper hole through a tick piece of metal , in a old cortina 1200 , than a bolt in a thinner damper body of a car that will no doubt be driven hard , and the damper worked harder due to the chopped spring .
So stealthstylz , do you agree that matched dampers and springs are better , or is it just because your tight and think you know better ?
And did i say i was expert Dez ? I just pointed out that proper kit is better and that you don't know what sort person you are talking to who may well do a thoroughly curse word job of it .
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,840
Club RR Member Number: 174
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bouncy cut springs stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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A matched spring and damper kit is better, but that's not what you or most other people have said. You said that lowering springs are better than chopped springs, which just isn't true if youre fitting both to stock dampers. Ride quality is all about available suspension travel. If you've got travel to spare then a car will ride well within reason as you don't need massively stiff springs to stop it bottoming out. Most of the ride problems with lowering are cause by lack of travel. As soon as a car hits the bump stops itll be horrific to drive, no matter how its lowered.
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A lowering spring is better . You chop a spring down thats say 180lb and 14 inch long and you are left with the bit which is high poundage , and a lower ride height , so all you have is a extremely hard choppy ride with nothing else .
Fit a lowering spring a you have the same shortened length , but at least some extra coils with lower poundage , meaning you have some give [ still harder than standard ] , so a better ride .
Neither is good with a standard damper , something you don't seem to mind though , i gather you wouldnt have bothered to pay for a uprated damper with a cut spring .
Oh yeah , i didnt mention i did two years working for Eibach on there service barge did i ?
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Forgive my ignorance but why are coilovers better than a normal (read that as standard or shortened) springs and shocks ? I would have thought a set of proper lowered springs and uprated shocks would be just as good at a fraction of the price or am I missing something ? BTW my daily(Smart Fortwo) has lowered springs all round - I wanted standard to replace broken items but, other than OE (expensive - Mercedes !), the aftermarket items I sourced from Germany were 1.5" lower. Ride with these springs and standard shocks is far better than the original springs
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Coilovers became fashionable with the VW crowd first primarily because you can raise and lower the spring platforms and there smaller size for wheel clearance . Nowadays they are seen obligatory because they are a buzz word so to speak , no one thinks about normal dampers and springs , at least not the young lot .
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I feel I'm at a good position to argue the merits of different suspension setups, having had all of the above on my car at different points. Each and every one I've ensured was safe, done correctly, and tested for many miles.
Cut springs (-100mm roughly:) Least comfortable, though better handling than lowering springs on flat roads and sharp bends (purely down to being stiffer as far as I could tell) 7/10
Lowering springs with matched shocks (Spax) -80mm: Smooth and comfortable, more lean in corners than others but better over rough ground 7/10
Ebay cheap coilovers (Hot Tuning, -120mm) I got these new for £130, bargainous! Easy to adjust ride height, as comfortable as the spax shocks at high ride height, more crashy at full drop. Handling was improved over springs/shocks but less comfortable at my preferred height. 8/10
Gaz coilovers (Fully adjustable damping, -120 front and -100 rear, solid top mounts with bearing) My current set up, these are incredible and worth my saving! Set to soft for daily use, still handle remarkably well and very little corner lean. Takes bumps with ease, eats corners for breakfast. 10/10
They were all fine, and I did a LOT of driving with them all. Overall I'd say go for Coilovers if you want handling and easy adjustability, cut springs if you know how to do them safely and don't want to spend much, and springs with shocks as a kind of in between.
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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I'd just like to add something of a bugbear of mine. "Coilover" actually refers to the positioning of the road spring in relation to the damper. Ie, the spring is over the damper. NOT a method of lowering in its own right. That would be adjustable spring platform coilover shocks.
The Triumph Herald had coilover front suspension in 1959 (iirc) and that was certainly not lowered!
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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bouncy cut springs slater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Basically what you need to do is take your skyline ad your 90odd posts of trolling and curse word off somewhere else.
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Forgive my ignorance but why are coilovers better than a normal (read that as standard or shortened) springs and shocks ? I would have thought a set of proper lowered springs and uprated shocks would be just as good at a fraction of the price or am I missing something ? BTW my daily(Smart Fortwo) has lowered springs all round - I wanted standard to replace broken items but, other than OE (expensive - Mercedes !), the aftermarket items I sourced from Germany were 1.5" lower. Ride with these springs and standard shocks is far better than the original springs I believe that decent shocks and springs can be as good but for me on my sierra, coilovers are better because the lowering springs and shocks don't sit the car how I want it, they always look lower at the rear, fair enough I havnt slammed my car to the floor as low as it could go, I can adjust it how I want it and also with a decent brand of coilovers gaz in my case they are rebuildable by the manufacturer at relatively low cost, also the springs are cheap, that for me is the reason I had coilovers instead of shocks and springs, most people have them because they can wind them down to the lowest point and have mega lows, I'm boring myself now, have a picture of my car
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Last Edit: Mar 7, 2015 9:58:01 GMT by fordperv
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So in conclusion... run air ride.
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HOLD ON A SECOND!! Listen up you primitive screwheads ... ALL OF YOU... First post : So cut my spring not a good idea mot was a nightmare... anyway can't afford to get coilovers atm and can't afford to replace springs atm...so is there a way of making the springs slightly stiffer when going over bumps bigger bump stops. Any ideas appreciated A few posts down on the same page : Found out it was cus the bumpstop I thought I'd put back was actually sat on the workbench looking lonely The thread ends there... After that it is people just arguing about a tangentially related subject (AGAIN, whilst complaining that they keep having to argue about this subject... when they don't). Then bitching about it on facebook... You people are all as bad as each other. Thread ended on the first page, anything after was just adding noise more and more and more noise. *sigh*
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