Rob Bell
Kinda New
Build. Race. Crash. Repeat.
Posts: 2
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Aug 23, 2015 13:14:44 GMT
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I seem to recall reading on the princess forum you can't use front displacers on the back, or vice versa. It's going to get to a point soon where someone is going to have to re manufacture them as they're becoming scarce. Absolutely right - you can't, in much the same way you wouldn't fit rear springs to the front and vice versa.
These things were designed to be cheap and easy to mass-manufacture, but all this was lost when th e Dunlop factory closed. To the best of my knowledge none of the original tooling survives
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Last Edit: Aug 23, 2015 13:15:41 GMT by Rob Bell
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Aug 25, 2015 18:58:46 GMT
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Thanks for the feedback guys. Thats that idea gone then. I still don't know the state of my front displacers but if they turn outto be buggered then I'll have to start hunting. Still stuck on rusted pivot shafts on the sub frames, I'm sure the cars the same but I won't think about that. Next week I'm thinking trail by fire or 40ton press. Or both. I noticed the brake drums changed at some point, is there a superior drum or are they basically the same?
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It's only bodgey if it doesn't work, otherwise it's genius
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,086
Club RR Member Number: 146
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1977 Princess 1800 HLvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Aug 25, 2015 21:41:04 GMT
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I've not noticed a significant different between the different drums beyond the outer cast section being a slightly different design. Pivot shaft removal is always an issue. Soak them in as much penetrating fluid as you can before going the press and fire route, sometimes you get lucky and they knock out. You may have some luck with the two-hammers technique (normally for ball joint removal) of hitting both sides of the bit that holds the pivot shaft simultaneously, quite hard... and you may shatter the trailing arm.
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Last Edit: Aug 25, 2015 21:42:33 GMT by vulgalour
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Starting to lose my mojo with the Princess. I've only driven it twice since I bought it and it's still no closer to being road legal. Hmmm
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It's only bodgey if it doesn't work, otherwise it's genius
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,086
Club RR Member Number: 146
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1977 Princess 1800 HLvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Aug 27, 2015 10:44:01 GMT
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I know that feeling, I'm so close to being road legal with mine and so far away it's really frustrating, things just aren't lining up as I want them to lately and my goal of getting a road legal drive in before Christmas seems to be getting further and further away from me.
What's stopping you getting it road legal?
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Aug 27, 2015 20:06:07 GMT
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The suspension isn't operating as designed due to being rock hard. It also needs a wheel bearing adjusted and inner rack end adjusted but thats easy. The suspension is the problem as it costs money.
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It's only bodgey if it doesn't work, otherwise it's genius
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,086
Club RR Member Number: 146
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1977 Princess 1800 HLvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Aug 27, 2015 20:20:57 GMT
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The suspension is ALWAYS the problem on these cars. Is there any fluid in at all? If it's really rock hard it might just be empty and you're then jiggling around mostly on the bump stops. That can happen if you've got a split pipe or even a loose fitting. Best way to find out if there's anything left in is to press on one of the schrader valves under the bonnet - use a cloth between your digit and the valve to stop it spraying everywhere - and see what comes out. It should try and mist out at you under pressure, if nothing comes out then you need to get some fresh fluid in there.
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Aug 27, 2015 20:44:31 GMT
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It's at almost the right ride height so not on the bumpstops, I think its just lost its gas(or ruptured a sphere) and hasbeen pumped up again. If you jack the front up the back goes down and so on so somethings in there. I really think its just out of gas.
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It's only bodgey if it doesn't work, otherwise it's genius
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,086
Club RR Member Number: 146
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1977 Princess 1800 HLvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Aug 27, 2015 21:21:36 GMT
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If you haven't got access to a pump to check the pressure of the system you can make a rudimentary test by bouncing each corner of the car with it sat on the ground. You may find one corner is harder than the others and that would suggest a blown internal diaphragm in one of the displacers. It's also possible the wrong fluid has been put into the system which means it can't operate correctly, I have heard of people filling Hydragas with regular oil or LHM fluid which of course won't work properly.
If possible, evacuate the whole system and pump to the correct pressure regardless of the height it sits at, that should help you diagnose where exactly the problem is.
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93fxdl
Posted a lot
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,000
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Aug 27, 2015 22:38:17 GMT
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A tale from the past, a friend used to be involved in mot tests for halfords, they had a metro in for test with siezed solid front suspension. The official info from Vosa was, no leaks, no free play, no fail, they could put an advisory, but couldn't fail it. Ttfn Glenn
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Aug 27, 2015 23:09:02 GMT
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You are right Vulgalour, it does go everywhere . Upon closer inspection, the front is basically on the bumpstops and would easily bottom out. The rear is sitting at 12 inchs from hub to fender and the front at 13 1/4 so quite low. Ill post the pics I took in a bit. I'm thinking homemade hydro pump as the few that are around charge an arm and two legs to use them and I may have to use one often if I mod the displacers.
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It's only bodgey if it doesn't work, otherwise it's genius
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,086
Club RR Member Number: 146
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1977 Princess 1800 HLvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Aug 27, 2015 23:43:14 GMT
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You're not sitting massively low. In the winter you can lose up to an inch of standard ride height as it does rise and fall when it's very cold or very hot, even on a healthy system. You should be at around the 14.5 inch mark, if you've got a B (as yours is) or E series and an automatic gearbox that extra weight can make the front sit a little lower. The 1700 O series with manual gearbox like mine sit a little nose high more often than not. From what you're describing I wouldn't be surprised if you have a failed front displacer or if you're lucky, not much gas left in them. Re-gas is possible if you get a schrader valve fitted where the closing rivet is on the unit but there's no guarantee it'll work long term. Your climate and roads will work in your favour for longevity of the system. That there's pressure in the system - isn't it an interesting smell? - is good, hopefully that points at healthy pipes and unions. 93fxdl it's true! Magic MoT-dodging suspension.
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So here is how it sits now Then I jacked it up to 14.5" all round. I know the rear doesn't really matter but it was only at 12.5" So there is quite a difference so I'll have to pump it up just to see. I took some pictures of the bumpstops to see just how close they are. Turns out they are quite close. You can tell by the check straps that it is quite low in the rear and both rear stops are about 2" away from the car. Also that isn't a hole on the right, just shiney
Unfortunately over here the part has to be working as intended I believe. At least that's how I understand it and I'm a WoF (MoT) inspector. Either awy I want it to be working correctly.
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It's only bodgey if it doesn't work, otherwise it's genius
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You're not sitting massively low. In the winter you can lose up to an inch of standard ride height as it does rise and fall when it's very cold or very hot, even on a healthy system. You should be at around the 14.5 inch mark, if you've got a B (as yours is) or E series and an automatic gearbox that extra weight can make the front sit a little lower. The 1700 O series with manual gearbox like mine sit a little nose high more often than not. From what you're describing I wouldn't be surprised if you have a failed front displacer or if you're lucky, not much gas left in them. Re-gas is possible if you get a schrader valve fitted where the closing rivet is on the unit but there's no guarantee it'll work long term. Your climate and roads will work in your favour for longevity of the system. That there's pressure in the system - isn't it an interesting smell? - is good, hopefully that points at healthy pipes and unions. 93fxdl it's true! Magic MoT-dodging suspension. yeah, my main fear is based on the fact that it is rock solid on all corners but that may change if pumped up. It's possible that there is just low gas in all the units and I'm hoping none are buggered. I'm very very tempted to get Schrader valves fitted to all anyway(if not burst) just because they all will have lost some gas and at least then they'll be serviceable if I stick with them. Air is still tempting with a set of wides.
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It's only bodgey if it doesn't work, otherwise it's genius
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,086
Club RR Member Number: 146
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1977 Princess 1800 HLvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Aug 28, 2015 11:21:40 GMT
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The rear end looks okay in all honesty, the check straps should have a curve to them like that and the arch gap before you jacked it up looks reasonable.
Normally, tyres are: 185/70/14 26psi at the front 24psi at the back
You've got 175/65/14, the nearest to that in the manual is 'special fitment' of 175/70/14. I'm not sure what the 'special fitment' refers to, it's different to again to the Denovo run flat tyres so perhaps it was for different steels or even alloys?: 27psi at the front 25psi at the back
Quite often tyres are over inflated to 30-32psi and that can make for a slightly bouncy ride. I tend to run at 28psi all round, it seems the best way to keep ride comfort and prevent premature tyre wear on my car. I was finding the factory pressures for 185s was causing tyres to wear out much quicker than I was happy with.
Could you take a picture from the front and rear square on with it sat at its normal height? That would help to spot any lean or odd camber. You should have a little bit of negative camber on the back but none on the front, sometimes an over-pressurised system will get positive camber on the front which you don't really want.
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Aug 28, 2015 19:43:57 GMT
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I'll take pictures when the sun comes up properly. The left side I know sits lower than the right so that has to be fixed. The tyres are run at a minimum if 34 psi due to our roads ripping tyres apart at lower pressures. It does need a full set of tyres due to being around 1.5mm and have sun cracking(like the rest of the car).
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It's only bodgey if it doesn't work, otherwise it's genius
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,086
Club RR Member Number: 146
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1977 Princess 1800 HLvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Aug 28, 2015 20:01:02 GMT
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I bet your left front displacer is gone. 34psi is WAY too high on a Princess! It'll ride appallingly way up there, no wonder it feels hard.
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Aug 28, 2015 20:40:39 GMT
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It probably is knowing my luck. I'm tempted to get my rims widened to run 205/70 or something like it to add to the cushion as I don't really have a choice in pressure.
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It's only bodgey if it doesn't work, otherwise it's genius
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Aug 28, 2015 20:53:02 GMT
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Unfortunately over here the part has to be working as intended I believe. At least that's how I understand it and I'm a WoF (MoT) inspector. Either awy I want it to be working correctly. Ah, random question time! whats the official line on visible (non structural) rust then? I could never get my head around it while I was out there - the number of cars we saw with holes filled with bog then blown over for a WOF was unreal
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Aug 28, 2015 22:01:19 GMT
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If its non-structural and not within 250mm of a hinge or latch etc it's OK as it doesn't effect the safety of the vehicle. It still qualifies for a note though.
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It's only bodgey if it doesn't work, otherwise it's genius
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