|
|
Sept 18, 2015 4:55:43 GMT
|
I am not a welding expert but I can see one thing that's going to give you more grief than you need which is the cleanliness of the panels you're welding to. Taking back as much surface rust as possible and giving yourself a decent margin of clean metal will make the welding itself massively easier. Flapwheels and wire brushes are your friend in this endeavour. Don't apply rust converter before welding, that gives you more work too. Tackle a small area at a time, especially when you're working outdoors, the rot will gallop if you let it and it's very easy to get overwhelmed with a job like this. Photographs will help too, they'll give you reference for shapes that inevitably go up in rust clouds when you try and clean them back. Most important of all, big fat thumbs up to you for getting stuck in on this, you're jumping right in at the deep end. Ask loads of questions, the advice on welding on here really helped me out a lot and gave me a lot of confidence in the work and how to improve my techniques. Now I just need to practice over and over until I'm really really good instead of just average. Thanks. I did try cleaning it first its just this part was in a real awkward place as its sort of underneath the front windscreen and in a small gap. I will definitely try and clean up the other panels better though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 18, 2015 6:51:08 GMT
|
They are nice looking cars although that one is an earlier model to the one i've got. I see it has a lot of potential to look like a good motor once its complete. I won't be restoring it to factory stock either so once its road worthy i'll start doing some mods to it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Figured its time for another update. The roof was coming away from the body at the edges so rather than leave it on as planned I thought sod it i'll just get rid of it. Might as well see how bad it is underneath now so I know what i'm in for. Started taking off the vinyl Not bad so far. Fully removed it was actually decent underneath, no holes or serious rust. Still need to remove all the glue as its all sticky and weird but its got this nice patina look about it. I much prefer it without the vinyl. After the vinyl was all off we took out the windscreen as there was some rot by the A pillar so wanted to see how bad it was behind the screen. This is the worse part So the rot was cut out and a new piece made up Also cut out the piece below it and welded that in. This is in a part finished state as it still needs tidying With that mostly sorted I moved back to working on the inner wing to give it some structure back. So new plate welded in More strengthening. Most of the pics are right after welding they have since been tidied up. More welding in of plates Then lastly a new box section welded in and painted quickly to protect it as the car is stored outside. Its not exactly the same as the original but it does the job and you will never see it once the wing goes back on. I didn't get any progress pics unfortunately as I was short of time so here is the mostly finished result I did weld in a bunch of other plates underneath the drivers floor but never got any pictures as again I was short on time. There was a plate welded in the drivers footrest and underneath. The jacking point plate was also cut out (what was left of it) and a new plate made up and welded in. Its looks like the jacking point had been repaired previously as you could see where it was welded in. Clearly it wasn't done too well as it had completely rotted so hopefully the new plate last a lot longer. Some of the other things that were done is the wiper motor unit removed as it stopped working, I have one from a mini which I need to fit but that probably wont be until after all the welding is complete. The heaters have also been removed as the plate behind them has also rotted and needs replacing My next job is to under seal the front arch again as I scraped most of it off, well I say scraped it kinda just fell off with some light prodding. Also need to tidy up some of the welds on top as it not quite finished yet, then its back to welding again :/ Any constructive criticism of my welding is welcome as i'm still learning and some of it "looks like pigeon s**t" as my dad says.
|
|
|
|
vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,086
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
|
Wow, you got off lightly with that roof! Great to see so much fresh metal going in there too. The welding looks pretty good for doing it outdoors, you're definitely working in difficult conditions for that sort of job. Very impressed you're making such positive progress on this and please do keep going, if this is how you're starting by the end of the job you'll be most excellent at rust repair.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
looking at the welds, that kind of scorched/sandblasted texture in the cooled weld is usually a sign that shielding gas is getting blown away, you havent got the regulator up far enough, or there is no gas. you are looking at 10-15 L/m outside which unfortunately will gobble a disposable in a couple of minutes (which might lead back to the third bit, no gas) if i am plug welding i always make the holes generous, usually an 8mm spot weld drill (assuming the flange is wide enough). if you use the small drill or punches that come with joddler tool the hole tends to get filled up with weld as soon as the arc is struck, none of the heat gets into the parent metal behind so the join is not as good as it should be oh quick edit. mistake i've made a few times is trying to butt weld panels on external corners, like where your scuttle turns down towards inner wheel arch. a few times i've made that as two bits of metal (rather than one with a bend in it) and then seam welded along the join. i've found if the seam weld is along an external corner, after you have ground the weld down for the cosmetic finish it gets really thin and starts breaking through (can see dark blue scorch appearing and a thin hair line crack where the edge of the original steel emerges). not really sure why this keeps happening as penetration is good. so i've just resigned to avoid making external butted joins! always have a fold and have the join lower down on flat panel, or if its complicated shape and has to be two bits of plate, weld from the back scuttle/windscreen corner repair has come out really well keep up the good work
|
|
Last Edit: Oct 9, 2015 10:18:11 GMT by darrenh
|
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 17:08:31 GMT
|
looking at the welds, that kind of scorched/sandblasted texture in the cooled weld is usually a sign that shielding gas is getting blown away, you havent got the regulator up far enough, or there is no gas. you are looking at 10-15 L/m outside which unfortunately will gobble a disposable in a couple of minutes (which might lead back to the third bit, no gas) if i am plug welding i always make the holes generous, usually an 8mm spot weld drill (assuming the flange is wide enough). if you use the small drill or punches that come with joddler tool the hole tends to get filled up with weld as soon as the arc is struck, none of the heat gets into the parent metal behind so the join is not as good as it should be oh quick edit. mistake i've made a few times is trying to butt weld panels on external corners, like where your scuttle turns down towards inner wheel arch. a few times i've made that as two bits of metal (rather than one with a bend in it) and then seam welded along the join. i've found if the seam weld is along an external corner, after you have ground the weld down for the cosmetic finish it gets really thin and starts breaking through (can see dark blue scorch appearing and a thin hair line crack where the edge of the original steel emerges). not really sure why this keeps happening as penetration is good. so i've just resigned to avoid making external butted joins! always have a fold and have the join lower down on flat panel, or if its complicated shape and has to be two bits of plate, weld from the back scuttle/windscreen corner repair has come out really well keep up the good work Thanks its always good to get some feed back on the welding stuff. I think I did actually run out of gas at one point when welding the inner wing panel so had to stop and start again the week after when I got more gas. I've only done a little bit of work this saturday so will do a full update once its worthy of one. As for now I was bored so figured I would photoshop a picture of how i'd like the finished car to look. The colour isn't 100% decided but I am leaning towards a nice deep silver although this could be years away with the amount of work I need to do first. Anyway heres the picture I made (real wheel perspective is a bit off but meh)
|
|
|
|
vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,086
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 21:50:08 GMT
|
I don't often like silver cars but silver on this could work very nicely having seen that. There must be loads of space in the wheel arches for interesting wheel offsets, these always look like the wheels are disappearing under the car, lending them that great heavy 60s saloon look.
|
|
|
|
pOG
Posted a lot
SHATNER'S BASSOON
Posts: 1,340
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 21:58:33 GMT
|
Jeezy Chreezy, that's a brave project to take on! These things has a dreadful rep for rotting when 'new' so all things considered it's a miracle it's survived so long. Good luck
|
|
|
|
120y
Part of things
Posts: 423
|
|
Oct 12, 2015 20:05:36 GMT
|
Those speakers are not house ones they are car ones, how they used to be in the late 80s early 90s
|
|
1996 Renault Clio MK1 1.4 RT Auto
|
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2015 20:11:43 GMT
|
yeah, the ubiquitous "shelf mount" speakers
i remember dad had some PYE ones in his cortina (remember them !)
|
|
Last Edit: Oct 12, 2015 20:11:54 GMT by darrenh
|
|
|
120y
Part of things
Posts: 423
|
|
Oct 12, 2015 20:16:56 GMT
|
Also Harry Moss and Audioline.
|
|
1996 Renault Clio MK1 1.4 RT Auto
|
|
Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,713
Club RR Member Number: 34
|
|
Oct 12, 2015 21:01:03 GMT
|
I don't often like silver cars but silver on this could work very nicely having seen that. There must be loads of space in the wheel arches for interesting wheel offsets, these always look like the wheels are disappearing under the car, lending them that great heavy 60s saloon look. Yes and no. I found out with mine the rear axle is about 3-4" too wide compared to the rear arches, when compared to the same relationship on the front. 7" banded steels were fine on the front with bags of room to turn, whereas In The rear you couldn't even fit 6s without them hitting the arches. I planned to fit a narrower rear axle before I could all the rot in mine and decide just to rechassis it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2015 21:07:10 GMT
|
yeah, the ubiquitous "shelf mount" speakers i remember dad had some PYE ones in his cortina (remember them !) I started my driving career in the 00's so I must of missed that fad. Never seen shelf speakers like that before in my life so just assumed they were house ones.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2015 21:12:50 GMT
|
I don't often like silver cars but silver on this could work very nicely having seen that. There must be loads of space in the wheel arches for interesting wheel offsets, these always look like the wheels are disappearing under the car, lending them that great heavy 60s saloon look. Yes and no. I found out with mine the rear axle is about 3-4" too wide compared to the rear arches, when compared to the same relationship on the front. 7" banded steels were fine on the front with bags of room to turn, whereas In The rear you couldn't even fit 6s without them hitting the arches. I planned to fit a narrower rear axle before I could all the rot in mine and decide just to rechassis it. Thats a bit of a bummer as the wheels I want the smallest they do are 6j wide 15". Would they fit with a different offset or would this hit on the leaf springs? (I don't have much experience with these old cars as you can probably tell)
|
|
|
|
Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,713
Club RR Member Number: 34
|
|
|
id have to dig out my pics and have a look see if they show it, but yeah, if your offset goes the other way it makes it a tight fit to the inner arches. i seem to remember the rear arches only being about 7.5" deep from the inner to the outer lip. i think i figured out if i fitted a rear axle that was 3" narrower i could fit 7s all round off the same offset. i was going to use an anglia van axle redrilled with spacers, but then i narrowed a scimitar axle and redrilled that instead. it is doable but its not easy. if you did it without a narrower axle youd either need massively different offsets front and rear, or the front wheels would look lost compared to the rears.
|
|
|
|
Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,713
Club RR Member Number: 34
|
|
|
this was a pair of stock wheels banded to 7x13". rear fitment- front fitment- you can see the difference! IIRC they touched the arch lips at the back so would have required some trimming. or, a narrower axle as i had planned.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 12:04:56 GMT
|
Thanks Dez, i've probably read your thread about yours a 100 times as its the only one I can find where someone has done work on the same car lol
|
|
|
|
vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,086
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 12:27:24 GMT
|
I'd forgotten about the faff you had with the blue one, Dez it's pretty surprising to see the pictures of the difference.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2015 13:31:45 GMT
|
Time for another update, didn't manage to get much work done these last few weeks due to rain, then getting ill then more rain. Anyway after a serious case or arc eye I invested in a new helmet before undertaking any more work as the last one didn't seem to be doing its job anymore New helmet acquired Next it was time to tackle the rear arch which as you can see is suffering from a bad case of the rust. After atacking it with the grinder and it throwing some serious amount of dust in my face, I was starting to wonder if there was any metal in this car at all This part started to come loose after a while so just took it off, turns out it was just a bit of fibre glass that had been stuck on and filled over This is what lurked beneath it. Not too pretty I must say. So it was cleaned up and replacement metal part made up and tacked on (this was tidied up and grinded down later but didn't get pics) A shot of the rear, looks like a new rear valance will need to be made up at some point Then the following weekend my brother needed to do a clutch change so I decided to do some work involving more manual means. So a coat of rust sealer followed by some under seal for the front arch and underneath where some new chassis bits had been put in. Its amazing how well this stuff hides my hideous welding job So car pushed off the drive and into the alley Looking better by the day Under seal! Decided it was time to remove the ugly tow bar, so off that came Now tow bar free Also removed the rear bumper in preparation for the rear to be welded Also took out the fuel tank, don't want another car of mine catching fire Moved back round to the side to tackle the sills, as they were a lot worse than first thought. So old sill off You can see how bad this car is underneath the sills. I kinda missed some progress pictures but all the holes behind the sills were grinded down had new plates welded in. Then a new sill was welded on with new end plates There was also a hole in the bit by the door shut so as I was on this part of the car figured I would make up a plate quick and weld in it Then lastly welding in some new metal on the rear quarter arch as this was full of rust and holes too Every time I start work on one part of the car more holes seem to appear elsewhere. Although on a more positive note when I first started working on the car the piles of rust on the floor afterwards were enough to fill a black bin bag. This weekend there was only enough to fill a small bag like you'd get from a card shop. So yay for less rust each time!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2015 14:46:32 GMT
|
I've just caught up with this and I must say you're a much braver person than I am taking on this project. It reminds me of an FB Victor for sale that I went to look at and ran rapidly away from before it followed me home. Very much of a similar condition to what you're dealing with. best of luck, looks as if you need it.
|
|
|
|
|