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^True that. Seldom see a clean one round here.
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MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,963
Club RR Member Number: 29
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Damn right. More people need to understand this. I think we might be pi$$ing in the wind preaching this line to the so called normal people though. Igor - read my post above. That study in particular was debunked by its own author! To be fair I wrote the essay a while ago, probably around the time the study was done. Yes things have moved on and it's great to see a balanced reply from somebody in the 'eco' business. The problem is that most people don't look at the big picture.
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1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
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93fxdl
Posted a lot
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,000
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Sorry, but I had to laugh Ttfn Glenn
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omega
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,060
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great for towing?? yes they can do a lot but the engine struggles well the one I was in did
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pOG
Posted a lot
SHATNER'S BASSOON
Posts: 1,340
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Mar 23, 2016 23:00:57 GMT
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Mar 24, 2016 12:22:35 GMT
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heres my 1982 defender (yeah thanks bbc) i'm of the same opinion as duggers. All the people that are up in arms about it going out of production, like land rover are some kind of heritage museum, they weren't doing the single only thing that could've prevented it, buy one. why werent they? because its a terrible "car". me, i've owned a ninety and now series 3 since 2009. I'd prefer land rover do the opposite to what all the traditionalist want, and produce a vehicle that people actually want to buy.
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adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,869
Club RR Member Number: 58
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End of the (current) Defenderadam73bgt
@adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member 58
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Mar 24, 2016 12:34:08 GMT
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Its interesting the mixed reaction this thread got but quite understandable I think I've never owned one (yet) but I work at LR and several people there have had one or had some sort of involvement with them The overriding feeling towards them seems to be, we know they're kind of horrible to use on the road as cars and they're flawed, but they have a certain character around them that people really like I think there was an inevitability about it going out of production because of various factors and the 'replacement' will be aiming for a different target market I think because they need to aim for what is profitable. I guess the main legacy of the original Defender is that the focus on off road ability got passed on to subsequent models. I'm not trying to sell them (I don't work in Marketing ) but even the softer stuff like the Evoque usually out performs relative competitor vehicles off road. Reliability may still be a question mark mind... I think I'll have to try a Defender or other old school Landy for myself one day before they all skyrocket in price!
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Mar 24, 2016 13:10:35 GMT
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but they have a certain character around them that people really like ant and dec have a certain character about them too, but nobody wants them in the garage either
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Ryannn
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,421
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Mar 24, 2016 14:05:46 GMT
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The overriding feeling towards them seems to be, we know they're kind of horrible to use on the road as cars and they're flawed, but they have a certain character around them that people really like I think there was an inevitability about it going out of production because of various factors and the 'replacement' will be aiming for a different target market I think because they need to aim for what is profitable. Same as the classic mini. Surely no one was buying them in the late 90's to use every day. They're genuinely awful to drive on UK roads and they cost more than the majority of super minis at the time!
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Mar 24, 2016 15:56:53 GMT
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I read an interview a while back with one of Land Rovers head honcho's ... He admitted that they made a mistake when the 90 &110 were rebranded as 'Defender' He said they should have redesigned and 'modernised' them then.
Same ethos jusr wrapped in a more user friendly package.
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I've owned a lot of Land Rovers through the years, and have driven examples of all the main models up to the Freelander 2, along with having spent more than a few years working on them in both enthusiast & professional capacities, so I'd guess my opinion is reasonably qualified...
At present we have a 110 station wagon and a Series 3 as the only motors in our household (threads in readers rides) and both are used regularly as intended.
In terms of the usual 'complaints' people have surrounding driving them due to the interior, I've always found they suited me rather well, the upright seating position meant I could run non stop between fill ups (about 350 miles) and still feel pretty good, whilst most smaller cars tend to leave me walking like John Wayne for similar distances, although I will admit to having some serious issues standing up straight for a good few hours after an 8 hour run on military spec seats in my old GS 101.
Generally I love owning the things, I love driving them, and having had the 110 longer than I have the kids it's got to a point where even though I occasionally get to a point I want to throw matches at it, or just sell it in favour of something else (another Land rover I would add) I know it wouldn't get that far.
Would I suggest buying one to a friend? No. Why? They're not really a 'mainstream' car. There's two ways to own one, one is pay someone else to look after it, the other is do it yourself. If you can afford a newer one then having someone else do it is likely less of a concern, whilst being younger vehicles mean they haven't had as much time to develop the little niggles older ones do.
Do it yourself is certainly cheaper if you have the tools and skills to do it, but it still has potential to be a little trying. On average (over two vehicles) I would guess I'm dealing with one fault per week, ranging from minor niggles (bulbs etc) to VOR faults such as the gearbox conversion detailed in the thread for the series 3.
I do occasionally feel it would be easier to have a euro box runaround and have the Land Rovers as toys or just keep them for local running, but in my mind they balance out the bad with the good and we keep on going. I can quite imagine that if someone who doesnt hold then in the same light as I do (bought it bevause it looks cool etc) was paying out for everything I've done with them in the past six months they'd have sold it on as a useless piece of curse word already, and if it was bought on my recommendation they would never speak to me again.
In short, there are definitely better cars available, Discoverys are both cheaper and more comfortable places to be (I've had 3 of them in the past) and equally capable vehicles, but there's something about the utility models. If you get it, you'll never want to be without one, if you're following fashion and looking for a trendy car with a Land Rover badge, you're better saving yourself the hassle and buying an Evoque or Discovery Sport.
I hope that's all in some way coherent.
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peewee
Part of things
Posts: 103
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but they have a certain character around them that people really like ant and dec have a certain character about them too, no they don't
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Ratchet
Part of things
The user formerly known as Thomas
Posts: 682
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Mar 25, 2016 19:14:52 GMT
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interesting how polarizing this thread has been,
Myself I love them, yes they have somewhat shonky build quality from the factory, and panel gaps you could fall through, and arent the most comfortable on road but if you care about that go buy a Rav4 or X5
They are utilitarian inside to, but that's kinda the whole point,and they do break down, but so does anything if its neglected, my partner ran two as daily drivers, and any failures were due to them being used seriously off road, and he used to do overland expeditions with one, most of the ussues can be avoided, particularly if you use the pre td5 versions... (to complicated..
Plus i think they look cool, but then i like stuff that looks like it could survive a nuclear war...
Sadly i doubt the 'replacement' will be any more than a styling exercise based with no proper chassis so no special body versions..
just seems no one wants to make affordable (yes I know the defender got very expensive in latter years), simple, good off road vehicles these days, Diahatsu stopped making the fourtrac, Hiluxes and landcruisers are fat and overly complicated these days..
And the landcruiser 75, and G-wagon aren't cheap, or available in the UK... sadly its down to some consumers wanting every conceivable pointless toy, and government safety and eco regulations etc (some of which are sensible I'll admit)
There is still the lada niva of course... but that's a whole other story.. [owned one of them too]
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Competition is the law of the jungle, but cooperation is the law of civilization.
1971 vw beetle 1200 1978 international loadstar 1700 4x4 1987 landrover 110 1994 Yamaha FZR600r 2010 honda CBF100GT
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Mar 25, 2016 22:16:46 GMT
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Just to add to my post above, having reassembled the Series III with a new front hub bearing this morning, I went out in the 110 a couple of hours later and was fortunate enough to hear a loud bang from a rear hub as the drive flange stripped it's splines.
It drove home, but has added another priority job to the list before it can go an awful lot further.
Again, I could have picked up a willow branch and gone all Basil Fawlty on it, but instead there was a little swearing followed by a little contemplation surrounding the best way to repair it.
Looking at it another way, is it any worse than and Alfa?
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vanpeebles
Part of things
I am eastbound in pursuit of a white Lamborghini, this is not a recording.
Posts: 978
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Mar 25, 2016 22:25:07 GMT
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Looking at it another way, is it any worse than and Alfa? Yes!
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bigjl
Part of things
Posts: 93
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I foresee a limited but lucrative market for a traditional style 4x4 for utility users the police etc who have traditionally used landrovers but now will not be able to. I guess if Toyota could make the Aussie land cruiser troop carrier road legal here with respect to emmisions etc they would shift quite a few The Ghana Police use an assortment of Nissan Navaras and Lamd Cruisers, not the new ones but the J70 shape. A few years ago they got a load of Pug 307's from France after some deal was done with the government but they only lasted a few years. If you drive round Accra there is a bit of land near the main highway/motorway that is filled with tow trucks, they are almost all Land Rovers, I should have taken a picture, the kids and I call it tow truck corner! Some of the cars/vans/trucks I have seen these Defenders tow had to be seen to be believed.
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mudpud
Part of things
Posts: 109
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Mar 26, 2016 15:12:04 GMT
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As a young and carefree 27 year old I bought a long wheel base landy just for the crack. Slow,loud,cold and thirsty and used to drive from Sandiace to Gainsborough Lincs every week end to visit the then girlfrend, wife,ex who hated the thing which gave me trouble with my back which I still suffer from today, so it had to go. Ended up at Albert Looms in Spondon Derby with a crane fitted and was used for many years for towing in scrap cars,Painted orange I wonder if it still exists, maybe some of you from this area remember it, you will need to be pretty old to do so. An icon but it has had its day,time to move on.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:04:50 GMT
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this is the concept drawings and a crude military prototype for defender replacement in 1990. based on the "new" discovery 1 chassis. personally, i think they should have pursued this pickup orientated vehicle, i mean it was 10 years too late even in 1990, let alone now. even bloody vauxhall had seen the market trends and were selling rebadged Japanese 4x4's !
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Last Edit: Mar 29, 2016 17:05:38 GMT by darrenh
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