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Jan 30, 2016 14:43:14 GMT
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I find it strangely ironic that the defender (and I include SI-III, 90s & 110s in that) isn't environmetally friendly enough for the modern world yet we are told that 70% of those built are still running. How sustainable do you want it to be? It's a safe bet that whatever replaces it will be so complex as to be no longer financially viable after 15 years or less. But enough of that, I still have fond memories of driving round Manchester city centre in one of these. People really did give you a wide berth in it. Absolutely brilliant fun. Exactly this. People try to tell me that my Landys more harmful to the planet than their eco-flex. The disgusting amounts of energy and oil used in producing modern cars is unreal but people just base their biased opinions on manufacturers, also biased, emissions outputs. So much energy can be saved by looking after what we have rather than trying to createe cleaner new things. It's like plastic bags. New cars and you s****ty plastic bags that clog the oceans and kill turtles, where Landys are you're bags for life that get used over and over, that save the planet.
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Jan 30, 2016 15:14:10 GMT
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Let's hope that the replacement is in the same spirit as the original: simple, durable and charismatic. I've got a nasty feeling that I'm hoping for too much..........
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1953 Minor (Long term project) PT Cruiser
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MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,963
Club RR Member Number: 29
Member is Online
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Jan 30, 2016 15:21:51 GMT
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People try to tell me that my Landys more harmful to the planet than their eco-flex. The disgusting amounts of energy and oil used in producing modern cars is unreal but people just base their biased opinions on manufacturers, also biased, emissions outputs. So much energy can be saved by looking after what we have rather than trying to createe cleaner new things. It's like plastic bags. New cars and you s****ty plastic bags that clog the oceans and kill turtles, where Landys are you're bags for life that get used over and over, that save the planet. There was some research (in the US) done that showed that a Jeep Cherokee was more environmentally friendly than a Prius if you take into account the dust-to-dust life cycle and that's not even factoring in the fact that things like Jeeps and Land-Rovers are run for much longer than most cars. One of the quotes floating around re the Defender is that 70% of all produced are still running. I upset my daughters science teacher by writing an essay about looking at environmental impact over the full life-cycle after she was fed eco propaganda. I get really annoyed when people talk about zero emission cars and forget about where the electricity comes from (I know it's probably better to generate electricity at a power station than run a car but it's not zero emissions).
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1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
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Jan 30, 2016 15:34:57 GMT
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People try to tell me that my Landys more harmful to the planet than their eco-flex. The disgusting amounts of energy and oil used in producing modern cars is unreal but people just base their biased opinions on manufacturers, also biased, emissions outputs. So much energy can be saved by looking after what we have rather than trying to createe cleaner new things. It's like plastic bags. New cars and you s****ty plastic bags that clog the oceans and kill turtles, where Landys are you're bags for life that get used over and over, that save the planet. There was some research (in the US) done that showed that a Jeep Cherokee was more environmentally friendly than a Prius if you take into account the dust-to-dust life cycle and that's not even factoring in the fact that things like Jeeps and Land-Rovers are run for much longer than most cars. One of the quotes floating around re the Defender is that 70% of all produced are still running. I upset my daughters science teacher by writing an essay about looking at environmental impact over the full life-cycle after she was fed eco propaganda. I get really annoyed when people talk about zero emission cars and forget about where the electricity comes from (I know it's probably better to generate electricity at a power station than run a car but it's not zero emissions). My old man showed me this the other day, they talk about the 70% as well, actually quite a good watch: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06yrdh9/inside-out-west-midlands-25012016I feel your pain, my university's big on eco-friendly ness and advertise their electric car charging ports (Yes, they do get the best paring right outside the entrances) as the zero emissions areas. People really do forget where electricity comes from when it doesn't suit the eco-friendly message they're portraying..
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Jan 30, 2016 15:44:51 GMT
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could the replacement look a little like this?
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Jan 30, 2016 16:05:04 GMT
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They're supposedly building a new factory to produce the new defenders in, loosely based on the evoke chassis..
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Jan 30, 2016 16:06:15 GMT
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I reckon that these will be manufactured elsewhere in the world at some juncture as they are still useful vehicles in tricky areas...
Having said that, perhaps this really is it and the original is now deceased.
The new model will not have utility in mind nor design (apart from 'inspiration') as it will soon be gracing the roads of Notting Hill, cheshire and all the other well-to-do areas of this country and beyond as it is just a mere trinket now!
These old brutes will live on forever so they will never be dead!
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***GARAGE CURRENTLY EMPTY***
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Jan 30, 2016 21:18:01 GMT
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After driving for 3000km in a mate's Defender, you're all crazy. The back seats were uncomfortable and caused my back to spasm for about a week afterwards. The front seats for a 3 year old car were much worse than the 15-20yo seats in the Patrol's and land cruisers I used to service and the economy from the 2.5TD was not very good. Yet my mate thinks the sun shines out of it??
Go to any proper 4x4 park here and the vast majority will be Toyota's and Nissan's (with various Holden/Isuzu and others thrown in). Very rare to see a LR actually doing tracks because they are usually broken down/leaking something back at base camp.
Old stuff is great (it's why we're on here, right?) but I can't confuse sentimentality with rubbish.
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After driving for 3000km in a mate's Defender, you're all crazy. The back seats were uncomfortable and caused my back to spasm for about a week afterwards. The front seats for a 3 year old car were much worse than the 15-20yo seats in the Patrol's and land cruisers I used to service and the economy from the 2.5TD was not very good. Yet my mate thinks the sun shines out of it?? Go to any proper 4x4 park here and the vast majority will be Toyota's and Nissan's (with various Holden/Isuzu and others thrown in). Very rare to see a LR actually doing tracks because they are usually broken down/leaking something back at base camp. Old stuff is great (it's why we're on here, right?) but I can't confuse sentimentality with rubbish. I do hate them rubbish Defenders...
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I like them, they have character, Landcruiser J series are better all round but they are spinebreakers offroad.
Drove over a sand dune and the backdoor fell off once. AC compressor caught on fire, steering rods regularly bent (why would they put this lower than the axle?), rear side windows repeatedly fell out/ exploded, none existent electrics etc etc.
During the Libya civil war the military came to our camp and took 15 away (they gave receipts), not long after they returned as one had broke down and another had caught on fire.
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After driving for 3000km in a mate's Defender, you're all crazy. The back seats were uncomfortable and caused my back to spasm for about a week afterwards. The front seats for a 3 year old car were much worse than the 15-20yo seats in the Patrol's and land cruisers I used to service and the economy from the 2.5TD was not very good. Yet my mate thinks the sun shines out of it?? Go to any proper 4x4 park here and the vast majority will be Toyota's and Nissan's (with various Holden/Isuzu and others thrown in). Very rare to see a LR actually doing tracks because they are usually broken down/leaking something back at base camp. Old stuff is great (it's why we're on here, right?) but I can't confuse sentimentality with rubbish. I do hate them rubbish Defenders... All I see is a tarted up LR in a carpark? I kind of agree with Sciclone, they don't do so well down here. There's a couple I know of that are well looked after, but I only ever see them on bitumen. The last one I saw at a 4WD park/track wasn't going anywhere anytime fast, and the last one before that (funnily enough on the way to said 4WD track), that was actually dirty, was on the back of a tow truck! Hiluxs and Patrols are much comfier, apparently more reliable (excluding the rear wheel bearings that my mates Hilux seems to eat) and just as - if not more - capable.
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I foresee a limited but lucrative market for a traditional style 4x4 for utility users the police etc who have traditionally used landrovers but now will not be able to. I guess if Toyota could make the Aussie land cruiser troop carrier road legal here with respect to emmisions etc they would shift quite a few
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gostin
Part of things
Posts: 84
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L300 and wrangler yj.
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On topic - My old boss has a 6 month old one, decked out with heated leather throughout, massive ICE install etc. It was crashing, listing, noisy fun but not fun I would put up with for long. You also need to close the doors in the correct order as one has a habit of popping open as you close the opposite door and already signs of surface rust around some of the welds on the body. Off topic - There was some research (in the US) done that showed that a Jeep Cherokee was more environmentally friendly than a Prius if you take into account the dust-to-dust life cycle and that's not even factoring in the fact that things like Jeeps and Land-Rovers are run for much longer than most cars. One of the quotes floating around re the Defender is that 70% of all produced are still running. I upset my daughters science teacher by writing an essay about looking at environmental impact over the full life-cycle after she was fed eco propaganda. I get really annoyed when people talk about zero emission cars and forget about where the electricity comes from (I know it's probably better to generate electricity at a power station than run a car but it's not zero emissions). My old man showed me this the other day, they talk about the 70% as well, actually quite a good watch: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06yrdh9/inside-out-west-midlands-25012016I feel your pain, my university's big on eco-friendly ness and advertise their electric car charging ports (Yes, they do get the best paring right outside the entrances) as the zero emissions areas. People really do forget where electricity comes from when it doesn't suit the eco-friendly message they're portraying.. To be fair though even if generated from coal/oil power stations the emissions from the an electric car journey are made at power stations with sophisticated emissions reduction and monitoring equipment, and at high level to disperse 'relatively' harmlessly in the atmosphere. The emissions from a smoky knackered defender sat in traffic are made directly in the faces of passing pedestrians. I'm not saying all cars should be scrapped overnight for electric cars (personally think the scrappage scheme was a really stupid idea when it largely removed cleanish, serviceable cars off the road to be replaced by cars a fraction cleaner), but you do need to consider location and receptors. There's been cases where cities have instigated odd/even car registration days in attempt to decrease car numbers and improve air quality and it's actually dropped as people just buy the cheapest car they can with the opposite number to keep driving and hence make 50% of journeys in a more polluting car than before. Personally I would support retrospective emissions tightening to drive the worst offenders off the road and hopefully stimulate a market where retro-fit emissions improvements would be viable. This could be in form of filters/cats etc or could be engine swaps. Keep your 20 year old metro on the road but drop it off in the morning for MOT and pick up with a recon modern petrol unit fitted, tuned to match the original power to keep brakes etc standard but with massive mpg boost as a result and proper emissions. I say all this as someone that works in renewable power, has had several Prius (Priuses?), a dirty V8 Rover, a rain water harvesting system at home, and a x-flow kit car that has 'visible smoke' as it's only emissions test on MOT day.... As for the Jeep Wrangler being cleanest car debate, there is a lot of discussions either way. But even the president of the company that released the study in 2006 agreed a lot of it was down to the low mileage expected from a Prius (100k which is now seen as very low given how many taxis and company cars are on 2-3x this, I did 90k in three years on my Prius III and everything worked as it should) and the technology at the time being very new and hence development 'carbon' costs being shared over very few cars (unlike the Jeep which is using old tried and tested and carbon 'free' parts etc). The company president, Spinella is quoted in 2006 as saying of the findings regards hybrids - "It would be totally different in three years. The hybrids will look significantly better. The new hybrids they are developing now—the new ones that I’ve seen, Prius III and Prius IV—are so much more simplified. They’ll do what the current versions do, but with far less complexity, lighter motors, more recyclable parts, and longer lasting components. The current Prius, for all intents and purposes, will be the Model T." So it does seem even if the results were true in 2006 they probably weren't by 2009 and by now are probably woefully behind.
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Chris™
Part of things
This is clearly filler material.
Posts: 519
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In line with most of the sentiments in here, I love the idea of a defender. More specifically I love the look of them, especially the Heritage edition but I will never own one for the reasons listed above!
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1989 Volvo 340 1986 Suzuki SJ413 2000 BMW 318ti 2006 Lexus IS250
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If you're not a sheep farmer in Wales or in the armed forces I just don't understand why you'd want one. Without doubt, one of the best off roaders ever, but hateful things to drive on your local dual carriageway, A road etc, I mean horrid. But they look so damn good and tow stuff like a locomotive.
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People try to tell me that my Landys more harmful to the planet than their eco-flex. The disgusting amounts of energy and oil used in producing modern cars is unreal but people just base their biased opinions on manufacturers, also biased, emissions outputs. So much energy can be saved by looking after what we have rather than trying to createe cleaner new things. It's like plastic bags. New cars and you s****ty plastic bags that clog the oceans and kill turtles, where Landys are you're bags for life that get used over and over, that save the planet. There was some research (in the US) done that showed that a Jeep Cherokee was more environmentally friendly than a Prius if you take into account the dust-to-dust life cycle and that's not even factoring in the fact that things like Jeeps and Land-Rovers are run for much longer than most cars. One of the quotes floating around re the Defender is that 70% of all produced are still running. I upset my daughters science teacher by writing an essay about looking at environmental impact over the full life-cycle after she was fed eco propaganda. I get really annoyed when people talk about zero emission cars and forget about where the electricity comes from (I know it's probably better to generate electricity at a power station than run a car but it's not zero emissions). Damn right. More people need to understand this. I think we might be pi$$ing in the wind preaching this line to the so called normal people though.
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I'd love a Series One ragtop. I'd probably even daily it but I don't think I could convince my wife to do a 1000 mile roadtrip in one.
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If you're not a sheep farmer in Wales or in the armed forces I just don't understand why you'd want one. Without doubt, one of the best off roaders ever, but hateful things to drive on your local dual carriageway, A road etc, I mean horrid. But they look so damn good and tow stuff like a locomotive. First half of your comment, 'crikey are your eyes painted on'? They look like two Lego bricks, dreadful looking things. Beauty in the eye of the beholder & all that. Second half, absolutely great for towing etc as mentioned
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Last Edit: Feb 1, 2016 20:43:13 GMT by rattlecan
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There was some research (in the US) done that showed that a Jeep Cherokee was more environmentally friendly than a Prius if you take into account the dust-to-dust life cycle and that's not even factoring in the fact that things like Jeeps and Land-Rovers are run for much longer than most cars. One of the quotes floating around re the Defender is that 70% of all produced are still running. I upset my daughters science teacher by writing an essay about looking at environmental impact over the full life-cycle after she was fed eco propaganda. I get really annoyed when people talk about zero emission cars and forget about where the electricity comes from (I know it's probably better to generate electricity at a power station than run a car but it's not zero emissions). Damn right. More people need to understand this. I think we might be pi$$ing in the wind preaching this line to the so called normal people though. Igor - read my post above. That study in particular was debunked by its own author!
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