|
|
|
Mar 12, 2016 20:06:01 GMT
|
|
Thats Bullplop, if they're theiving to put food on the table it's because they've blown their money on smack, fags, satellite TV and the mobile phone and they already flogged off the kids Ritalin prescriptions.
I come from a hard up area and have seen real poverty, like when you go to your friends house to play and the bailiffs have just been and taken the carpets because they had nothing else left in the house. They didn't resort to stealing it's no excuse
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2016 20:24:28 GMT
|
Dave, sarcasm/irony is clearly wasted on some folk, esp as the bit about the business idea was meant to be ironic since so many of the posts on this thread were heading for the bunker mentality re how we use our classics. So kindly try reading the post in that spirit before shooting off at the hip or lip. There is nothing worse than opinion being posited as statistics. You want twaddle then your 999.99999% is definitely right up there as a being a classic example. As indeed is putting up a strawman question and then answering it yourself. My bit about those driven to theft is perfectly valid, go ask any of a large number of charities dealing with the fallout of today's post banking disaster society, or any probation officer and indeed any police officer who works on a beat. I put it in to differentiate our classic car thieves i.e. the people who choose to thieve. Nor did I say some of this stuff wasn't being taken by professionals who come equipped to steal to order (I am indeed aware of the Escort that was taken from the showroom, in fact you'll find I posted on there) but I'd like to see a fully analysed set of data re all these recent classic thefts to see just how easy/hard it was for the thieves to lift the goods. Meantime it is about time we all looked bloody hard at just how easy it might be for someone even just a bit more determined than a casual thief to make off with our pride and joy before we get to the position as posted by several people that they are pretty much paranoid about even taking their vehicle to the shops and shows. I think you will find if people are desperate that steal , meat , razors , cosmetics etc then hawk it in the local pubs . Mainly for drugs or drink - does your local paper do a list of who has been in court on charges ? Mine does and its all drink driving and thieving like that . They do not go out and steal mk1 escorts somehow getting a trailer , 4x4 , lockup etc then strip it and sell it to get a bag of brown ! I don't think that sort of person could last a few weeks it would take to do that without drink/drugs !!!!!! Is it because of the bedroom tax ? How about that seen as you speaking waffle ? Come to think of it i saw about 7 mk1 escorts people had nicked and hidden in there houses on that Benefits series  And your posts really don't make much sense as you contradict yourself constantly . |
| |
|
|
pcj
Part of things
Posts: 203 
|
|
Mar 12, 2016 21:25:03 GMT
|
Oh my God, I can't afford to eat, due to the banking crisis making me poor. My only solution is to steal a classic Ford  Not quite trolling, but getting close. :-) Sometimes the nit-picking/side-tracking so beloved by some on here render the forums a whole lot less effective than they could be. While we are busy misreading posts to our own slant nobody is doing much about offering up much to help in bringing this spate of thievery under control. If we are on the receiving end of a bunch of serious professionals (as per high value cars like the Escort that went in the ram-raid on the showroom) then we have a problem that should be high on the agenda of our local police forces and if it isn't then it should be brought to their attention. Isn't that one of the things Police Commissioner's were created for? Def professionals in the case of that Escort: the thieves had obviously had plenty of time to case the joint: look at the video: no danger of the Landie not punching in the window nor getting hung up on any obstructions in the window structure itself (nor the Escort when towed out), they knew where the camera was (not once did they look towards it), they came fully equipped to hook up and tow and pretty obviously had covered transport nearby as the Escort and Landie vanished within minutes (and they even wasted a good Landie by burning it out later). They didn't mind that wastage, they were nicking a £100,000 vehicle and to make it worth their while they must have had a customer either for the car (some loony collector who will never dare take it to a show/put it on the road?) or willing buyers for some very specialist parts. It takes two to tango: the taker and the receiver. Moving down the scale a bit the somewhat less valuable classics (e.g the £10 grand or so ones) also get lifted. Is there any analysis showing just how much defence was overcome to steal them? There was a post on here not so long ago with such a beast removed from a lock up where the owner hadn't visited in weeks. Yes I know there are probably reasons why the owner didn't go more often, but that's not the point, it left the vehicle vulnerable and gave the thieves a nice long get away time. Moving further down the scale when scrap prices are high our lowly everyday classics become fair game simply for their weigh-in value. How many of those have been lifted relatively easily? How many of those owners never thought twice that anyone would even bother to nick their rolling resto/plain jane car/bottom of the price range/condition 3 runner so they took very little if any precautions? At the moment scrap is so low that scrappies will charge you to come and get your vehicle, yet our pride and joys are still being lifted. So why, and where do they go? All sorts of targets are posited: the banger-racing boys, travellers, joy-riders to name a few. In each case takers and receivers are needed. The points I was trying to get people to focus on were that: a) If the thieves were truly professional/determined to have the car then we were really up against the odds but going for the bunker mentality wasn't going to help and if we did adopt it we might as well kill our hobby stone-dead and take up my (tongue-in-cheek) concrete igloo method. b) in all cases there has to be a taker and a receiver (in a few cases they may be one and the same) c) we have to do our damnedest to inhibit/break the link in b above. To do this we must take at least some basic precautions at our end (a whole lot more than just locking the beast and walking away can be done without breaking the bank or rendering access to the vehicle such a chore that we might as well not bother). How long would it take you (esp each time you do a repair/service) to take pics/note down serial numbers/special identifying marks (the out of position weld/hole you didn't quite get right)/ the funny internal paint colour etc etc) and put them into a small computer file ready for when needed to identify recovered “stolen” goods and/or deter attempts to sell them on? How many relatively low cost deterrents do you deploy to protect your pride and joy? I know many of us have to park on public roads so some of the easy stuff like bollards/removing wheels etc is a no-go but there's plenty of low-cost tech (cameras/movement detectors/trackers) available that might at least help. Yes I know the gainsayers will quote “they can be blocked” but there again if my computer is being used to monitor a device in my car and it suddenly loses contact with it, might it just perhaps might be worth pinging me a message to check it out, or maybe activate a bit more automation and bring on-line a camera? How many people have heard of SmartWater? How many car clubs/shows ask for and check that engine number and chassis numbers match the vehicle and log book? Maybe they should. How many people keep a log of where they bought that spare part and from whom? Maybe next time you should be so overjoyed in finding your bargain that you just have to have a selfie with them? If they are reluctant and the part price is so good perhaps it might ring a few alarm bells? There again how many people are happy to buy a bargain from a stranger in the pub car park no questions asked? We can't stop it all but we can sure as hell make some of it harder for them! |
| |
|
|
pcj
Part of things
Posts: 203
|
|
Mar 12, 2016 21:48:23 GMT
|
Dave (as HAL said): Quote: "I think you will find if people are desperate that steal , meat , razors , cosmetics etc then hawk it in the local pubs . Mainly for drugs or drink - does your local paper do a list of who has been in court on charges ? Mine does and its all drink driving and thieving like that . They do not go out and steal mk1 escorts somehow getting a trailer , 4x4 , lockup etc then strip it and sell it to get a bag of brown ! I don't think that sort of person could last a few weeks it would take to do that without drink/drugs !!!!!! Is it because of the bedroom tax ? How about that seen as you speaking waffle ? Come to think of it i saw about 7 mk1 escorts people had nicked and hidden in there houses on that Benefits series And your posts really don't make much sense as you contradict yourself constantly ." If there's much sense in there I'm struggling to find it. Check my post, you seem to think I'm saying the desperate are stealing our cars. I am not! I'm trying to get people to take note of the fact that we are on the receiving end of serious thievery from part-timers right up to the top end professionals and that we need to at least tighten up our end of things as much as we can. You described the typical lifting of a Mk1 very well, def not an amateur chancer event but the real sting was right at the end: breaking it to sell. Who buys the parts? Other Mk1 owners (classic nuts just like the rest of us) so who is turning a blind eye to the source of these goodies? The buyers? The intermediaries who sell them on via bona-fide businesses? The bona-fide businesses themselves? Or all of them? There lies the problem: no traceability and in some cases "no ask, no tell" on the part of everyone. |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've heard of smart water, its the wonderful idea that when your car gets stolen and stripped, at some point in the future the police might find part of that car. So you have peace of mind knowing that when your MK1 Escort gets stolen, a year or two later the police will be able to give you a wing mirror back Of course that's after the police probably have charged you a storage fee for holding onto the mirror  |
| |
1993 Fiat Panda Selecta
2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van
2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2016 11:32:45 GMT
|
|
Its a good idea in theory , the hance of someone getting busted with parts and then the police bothering to check them sounds almost impossible . A bit like getting your pushbike stamped by them . I had mine stolen and the police told me they didnt check them as they were to many to do , so i would have to phone up everyweek . Which i did and got the same irate policeman everyweek who didnt give a monkeys !
|
| |
|
|
pcj
Part of things
Posts: 203
|
|
Mar 14, 2016 21:18:49 GMT
|
|
Well you have my sympathy there Dave cos if the people who are supposed to follow up on these things don't or won't then we have one hell of an uphill battle, esp as it essentially sends the thieves a green light to proceed, as the boys in blue can't be bothered.
What to do? Your guess is as good as mine on that one. Maybe the only way is via social media (bit like the posting of pics on here) except for us to be pushing the information about what is stolen and how little apparent action seems to be coming from those who should be dealing with it, a sort of "naming and shaming" of the lack of activity. Get it out into the public sphere: email local papers constantly, car magazines, same for MPs, the Police Commissioner if you have one and of course your local Chief Constable and the appropriate police committees. Maybe, like so many others wanting some problem sorted, we will only get action if we make a constant nuisance of ourselves and they know we won't get fed up and go away.
For instance before joining Retro Rides I figured (and indeed had couple of friends who'd had it happen to them) that older classics were simply stolen to weigh in for scrap when the price was right. Other than that you only heard of the rare event of some very valuable car being lifted (and obviously in that case stolen to order) via the news.
Like most of the general public I was pretty well in the dark about the level of theft happening to "normal" classic cars, yet it seems now that every time I log on there's another one or two gone (esp the Escorts). Trouble is that although it has enlightened me and I see first hand "yet another one gone" we are talking in a closed community. The public remains blithely unaware of the level of classic car theft and that little that is being done to curb it.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 14, 2016 22:21:14 GMT
|
The public remains blithely unaware of the level of classic car theft and that little that is being done to curb it. " The public" probably don't care, most of them don't understand why we would want to spend any time at all in an old car. let alone why we should be upset if it was stolen and the insurance paid out. My next door neighbour when I grew up had a 43 Willys MB that he'd owned since the 60's, Roger Moore drove it in 'The Saint' and it was his daily driver for many years. I'd recommissioned it for him in 1990. It was stolen off his drive on a Sunday afternoon while all the neighbours were in and when questioned they all thought it was quite amusing. The public are a funny old lot sometimes. |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 14, 2016 22:21:16 GMT
|
|
Trouble is police are so understaffed & have so much pointless paperwork that policing has changed for the worse!
An example of this was the recent thefts of 2 Cortina's stolen from Chatham on the same night. There were reported sightings of two Cortinas on the back of a lorry heading towards Dartford Crossing. The owners of the cars were advised to chase up the CCTV footage, the ex wife of one of the owners approached them to get the footage of that night but were told that they couldn't hand over footage to the general public & that the request for footage had to come from the police. The person requested this be done by the police but it was never done, valuable footage was lost & the thieves allowed to go on their merry way!
The footage would have caught the Cortina's on the lorry & captured the reg of the vehicle used in the thefts but the police were unwilling to act upon it!
|
| |
|
|
93fxdl
Posted a lot
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,000
|
|
Mar 14, 2016 23:56:13 GMT
|
|
|
| |
Last Edit: Mar 15, 2016 8:59:29 GMT by 93fxdl
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2016 18:48:51 GMT
|
Trouble is police are so understaffed & have so much pointless paperwork that policing has changed for the worse! An example of this was the recent thefts of 2 Cortina's stolen from Chatham on the same night. There were reported sightings of two Cortinas on the back of a lorry heading towards Dartford Crossing. The owners of the cars were advised to chase up the CCTV footage, the ex wife of one of the owners approached them to get the footage of that night but were told that they couldn't hand over footage to the general public & that the request for footage had to come from the police. The person requested this be done by the police but it was never done, valuable footage was lost & the thieves allowed to go on their merry way! The footage would have caught the Cortina's on the lorry & captured the reg of the vehicle used in the thefts but the police were unwilling to act upon it! I had the same with a gang of kids stealing Specialized mountain bike [ not cheap !] They stole mine and then i saw them having ago at my neighbours . He chased them off but we could see them up the road trying others bikes , a big pack of about 20 of them , all riding £1000 bikes which had been painted with aerosols . I pooped out with my flat mate and followed them for the best part of 45 minutes as they went about there business stealing saddles and bikes at will . All this time we were on the phone to the police 1/2 a mile away . This is on a wednesday evening and it took that long for them to come out [ 1 tired old copper ] . Nothing happened really he took a few names and let them go , dispite two of them having backpacks with bolt croppers in !!!!! Useless !!! |
| |
|
|
