bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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I've tried some multimeter tests, there's no ballast resistor. I get 12.6v at the battery and 12.4 at the starter solenoid. The battery is in the boot and when the engine is cranked it the voltage drops to 8.4 at the solenoid. I switched the battery from my daily into it and still slow cranking so could this be the long power cable? Cranking is quicker with no spark plugs which is understandable. I spoke to accuspark and they've suggested connecting the dizzy to the battery directly but II've not seen an improvement in firing Just realised it's a Mk1/2 so ignor my comment about were the ballest is, now you know why it helps to state what car your talking about in the OP otherwise we're guessing so it's an accuspart ign then not ford ? just the sensor fitted in the dizzy? what's the voltage at the COIL ? if it's 12V going direct to the battery wont make any differance IME you only go direct to the battery to bypass the ballest which you don't have or to test the ign switch which you will be doing when you check the COIL voltage (IGN on and cranking) if the voltage drops to 8 at he COIL i'd be suspecting the cable from the boot isn't thick enough? is it allways been slow cranking or are we still looking into no spark? have you laid a spark plug on the engine and actually checked for a spark or are you assuming it must be lack of spark cos it wont start ?
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R.I.P photobucket
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Like you, I'm suspecting that when the voltage at the solenoid is 8.4, the voltage at the coil is equally low - Hence bypassing the lengthy cable run/possible volt drop issues.
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I'm sorry I didn't mean to give half a story, it's a 66 mk1 gt.the dizzy is all new lucas replacement with no vacuum advance because I want to run bike carbs in the future. The carb vacuum line has been sealed Battery is in the boot and I've used a thick core cable as recommended by Classic Ford Magazine. I checked voltage at the coil at 12.4 when ignition is on but haven't checked under cranking. I get sparks when I hold the lead or plug a few mm from the head It sounds like a ballast issue on paper but the coil resistance and voltage suggest otherwise!
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1966 Ford Cortina GT 2018 Ford Fiesta ST
Full time engineer, part time waffler on Youtube - see Jim_Builds
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Ok, so if I've got this right: With the plugs out, engine spins quicker (obviously) and your getting a spark at all the spark plug ends, when cranking?
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If that's correct then one of two things is happening: 1) you're losing the spark under heavy cranking due to voltage drop. Could be on the postive or negative side, add additional engine to body earthing (never can have too much) and try using jump pack/battery direct on the starter. You need a minimum of 12v at the coil. 2) you could actually be getting sparks during cranking, just not in the right order. Static timing set? Plug leads in the right order?
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If that's correct then one of two things is happening: 1) you're losing the spark under heavy cranking due to voltage drop. Could be on the postive or negative side, add additional engine to body earthing (never can have too much) and try using jump pack/battery direct on the starter. You need a minimum of 12v at the coil. 2) you could actually be getting sparks during cranking, just not in the right order. Static timing set? Plug leads in the right order? I definitely am from 1 and 4 because they were to hand from the key etc I'll get another strap tomorrow. I've changed the primary jet as it was too small Go over everything else again!
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1966 Ford Cortina GT 2018 Ford Fiesta ST
Full time engineer, part time waffler on Youtube - see Jim_Builds
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Check the battery earth too; If you've got anyone who could crank the engine over, you can measure volt drop by measuring the voltage across the earth strap. So from the battery negative to the body, and from a clean engine point to the body. Anything more than .5v during cranking is bad.
I doubt your multimeter will have long enough cables to measure from the Battery + to the solenoid +, but if it can, anything more than .5v during cranking is bad.
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^ Lots of good advice above, read & ask if any questions I managed to kill an Aldon unit on a '64 1500 a long time ago, took a long time to find the problem as it would fire ok at TDC but not for the other cylinders Something to think about??? Battery is in the boot... ^ Voltage drop on the long cable or bad earth somewhere, or a tight engine from standing for a while? Charge your battery, and get a *good* (not cheap) pair of jump leads then... use 1 jumplead from engine to body (engine earth) , other from battery to body (battery earth) - try to start it. put the battery by the front of the car - use 1 jumplead from battery to engine/body, other from battery to original battery point under the bonnet (starter solenoid? find where the battery cable from the boot goes under the bonnet) - try to start it. if you can find a jumpstart booster pack, use that under the bonnet in addition to the battery in the boot if you have sparks, try some easystart (or a splash of petrol) down the carb and see if it fires - just in case the problem is fuel. Unlikely as you get a squirt of fuel when you dab the throttle. Late thought - flooded? (take all plugs out and spin on the starter to clear the fumes) tow / bump it in 2nd? (remember you need the ignition turned on! ) Left-field suggestion (use at your risk) - remove 2 of the plugs so it can spin easier - it might cough or fire on the other 2 Bonus tip : it never hurts to warm the plugs up in the grill/oven before trying to start a problem motor.
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Thanks guys I'll give these a go, I've got a shopping list of bits to get on my way home later!
It's a rebuilt engine, I have been turning it by hand for a while to get the oil going but it's still tight which would explain a lot
I'm going to check ignition timing again as the dizzy isn't really marked so i did it by eye it all lines up but I could be mistaken
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1966 Ford Cortina GT 2018 Ford Fiesta ST
Full time engineer, part time waffler on Youtube - see Jim_Builds
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It's a rebuilt engine, I have been turning it by hand for a while to get the oil going but it's still tight which would explain a lot I'm going to check ignition timing again as the dizzy isn't really marked so i did it by eye it all lines up but I could be mistaken take all the plugs out and use short bursts on the starter until the oil light goes out - gives you oil pressure without stressing dry bearings also loosens the motor. Timing. Check it's not 180* out. It's easy to do wrong - ask me how I know
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1500GT pre crossflow? Is it a replacement distributor or just the pack inside? If you are using an accuspark 'stealth' type system where the control box is in the dizzy then they don't time up in the same place as the original points ones. If you have fitted the 'stealth pack' inside the old dizzy then there is a good chance the timing is well off. Do you have a timing light ? Remove plugs and leads from 2,3 & 4 but connect the timing light to number 1 then use the timing light to check the timing on the front pulley as you crank it, just don't touch the other leads while you do it.
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Last Edit: Apr 6, 2016 10:30:59 GMT by Rebuilda: can't spell...
1988 DUTTON LEGERRA MK1 - SPARES DONOR 1989 DUTTON LEGERRA MK2 - CURRENT PROJECT 1990 DUTTON LEGERRA ZS MK2 1990 DUTTON LEGERRA ZS MK2 DUTTON PHAETON S2 - Resting DUTTON PHAETON S4 - Resting DUTTON PHAETON S4 - PROJECT X DUTTON SIERRA S2 - Resting
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1500GT pre crossflow? Is it a replacement distributor or just the pack inside? If you are using an accuspark 'stealth' type system where the control box is in the dizzy then they don't time up in the same place as the original points ones. If you have fitted the 'stealth pack' inside the old dizzy then there is a good chance the timing is well off. Do you have a timing light ? Remove plugs and leads from 2,3 & 4 but connect the timing light to number 1 then use the timing light to check the timing on the front pulley as you crank it, just don't touch the other leads while you do it. It's a whole new distributor from them - I think tonight I'll try all 4 he leads for sparks and remove the dizzy and try again Also fit new earth straps etc
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1966 Ford Cortina GT 2018 Ford Fiesta ST
Full time engineer, part time waffler on Youtube - see Jim_Builds
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People often overlook earth straps when building kits too. BIG earths are a win, same size as the battery cable that supplies the starter solenoid. If you are going to whip the dizzy out and refit it set the engine to TDC using the timing marks on the front pulley and a 'stick' down the plug hole on number 1 (i use a clear gluestick as it won't damage the engine but its a good fit down the plug hole on a crossflow / precross) with the dizzy out of mesh line the rotor arm up with #1 HT socket then rotate it backwards by 90 degrees. (backwards being to opposite to the direction of rotation) this should put the rotor arm close to the right place when you put it back in and re-mesh the gears. leave the dizzy locknut finger tight so you can adjust the dizzy as you crank it over. rotate the dizzy slowly as you crank it and at some point it should fire.
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1988 DUTTON LEGERRA MK1 - SPARES DONOR 1989 DUTTON LEGERRA MK2 - CURRENT PROJECT 1990 DUTTON LEGERRA ZS MK2 1990 DUTTON LEGERRA ZS MK2 DUTTON PHAETON S2 - Resting DUTTON PHAETON S4 - Resting DUTTON PHAETON S4 - PROJECT X DUTTON SIERRA S2 - Resting
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Thanks I'll have a look at this tomorrow, I fitted some new earth straps which has helped and a new starter lead I checked all 4 ht leads against the engine and they all fire and in order so I'm thinking timing is out As it's a GT there isn't an oil warning light just the gauge which after connecting up is registering 15 - 20psi on cranking which is good
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1966 Ford Cortina GT 2018 Ford Fiesta ST
Full time engineer, part time waffler on Youtube - see Jim_Builds
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People often overlook earth straps when building kits too. BIG earths are a win, same size as the battery cable that supplies the starter solenoid. If you are going to whip the dizzy out and refit it set the engine to TDC using the timing marks on the front pulley and a 'stick' down the plug hole on number 1 (i use a clear gluestick as it won't damage the engine but its a good fit down the plug hole on a crossflow / precross) with the dizzy out of mesh line the rotor arm up with #1 HT socket then rotate it backwards by 90 degrees. (backwards being to opposite to the direction of rotation) this should put the rotor arm close to the right place when you put it back in and re-mesh the gears. leave the dizzy locknut finger tight so you can adjust the dizzy as you crank it over. rotate the dizzy slowly as you crank it and at some point it should fire. As well as putting the crank pulley on TDC, take the rocker cover off and check that the valves on No1 cyl are shut with rocker clearance. The valves on No4 are 'on the rock' with one closing and the other opening as you go through TDC. Then proceed as described with the dist. Colin
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Thanks Colin, I forgot that bit
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1988 DUTTON LEGERRA MK1 - SPARES DONOR 1989 DUTTON LEGERRA MK2 - CURRENT PROJECT 1990 DUTTON LEGERRA ZS MK2 1990 DUTTON LEGERRA ZS MK2 DUTTON PHAETON S2 - Resting DUTTON PHAETON S4 - Resting DUTTON PHAETON S4 - PROJECT X DUTTON SIERRA S2 - Resting
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Those cables look a bit thin to me, but at least they've helped. I was always taught that "if it'll carry more, it'll carry less". Nothing wrong with multiple earths too!
Sounds like we're getting close to firing up though.
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I've had the dizzy off and timed up and a second battery solely connected to the starter it fired but wouldn't run but it could be the fact the starter was still running slightly
I feel it's more to the power front to back possibly the positive cable? I'll try and rig the battery to the front which will answer that
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1966 Ford Cortina GT 2018 Ford Fiesta ST
Full time engineer, part time waffler on Youtube - see Jim_Builds
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So with the battery up front I still have the same issues, I'm really stumped!
I had some firing but it dies before idling
I'm so lost!
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1966 Ford Cortina GT 2018 Ford Fiesta ST
Full time engineer, part time waffler on Youtube - see Jim_Builds
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Hi, well you know now the spark is OK. Try static timing it, put the crank pulley onto the timing mark the book says, then turn the dist backwards and forewards until No1 plug cracks and nip the dist up at that. Is that better? Then move onto the fueling, can you keep it going by using the throttle?
Colin
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