BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
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Jun 22, 2016 20:25:42 GMT
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Hello Retro Rides, I wanted to share with you my Porsche. For as long as I can remember I have been infatuated with Porsches, mainly the aircooled 911 but you may have noticed, they're darn expensive! The later water cooled 911's are a lot more affordable, still super expensive but they just don't seem to do it for me totally. Anyway, I have also had my eye out for a replacement retro for the past few months but nothing had taken my fancy. There are some cracking 944's on here and over the years they really have grown on me, alas, they are on the rise and well out of my budget. Still, there is no harm in looking I suppose. It all started on the bank holiday, I was laid in bed the Monday evening and thought I would have a browse through this very forums classified adverts. The first advert 3 minutes old was for a 944 within budget. I jumped out of bed before realising that it probably wasn't practical, however after my better half asking what I was so excited about she told me I would be a fool not to go and at least look at it. 5 minutes later I had spoken with the owner and we had arranged to go and have a look the following evening. The advert showed this... A very faded 944, sat for 3 years after the owner had passed away. I was a little apprehensive about what to expect, but quite excited at the same time. Upon arrival at the vehicle it was obvious it had sat for a very long time. The chap showed me around and was pretty sound. I tried not to show my excitement at a Porsche that didn't run, was pink, hadn't moved for 3 years, had mould on the insides, with rust holes in it, but I don't think I did very well. We shook hands and a deposit was paid and I sorted out a recovery driver to collect it. This is how it looked after my deposit was paid. A few days later the car was recovered by my usual driver, for once he approved of this one. The car was seized pretty good. Took a fair bit of force to get it off that's for sure. But here it is in all its faded, non running, seized glory. So the plans. Nothing special or fantastic at all, its currently a non runner, obviously we need it to run. I don't want to be known as the guy with the pink Porsche, so I would ideally like it to be red again. I then just want to get the car through a MOT, it wont be a quick one, but I would like to have it done for the meeting we have at the end of august, but I am not holding my breath at the moment.
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Last Edit: Jul 9, 2016 21:25:19 GMT by BT
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Porsche
West Midlands
Kev from B'ham.
Posts: 4,725
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Jun 22, 2016 20:50:15 GMT
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Good luck... nice to see another classic car saved and not stripped. Porsche did actually paint 944s pink... there are two different shades that I know of and they are very sought after. Ragley by Kevin Day, on Flickr
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BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
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Jun 22, 2016 21:17:11 GMT
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Well every day is a school day!
Thanks, I think I'm going to need it. Call me odd but I couldn't strip one of these for parts, they're something I've wanted since I was a youngster, just so glad to finally get one. At one point I even considered buying a partly broken 944 and try to resurrect it. Glad I didn't, I've already suffered the sore end of Porsche parts.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:04:38 GMT
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I was so close to buy that unseen because it looked a bargain and its a Porsche at the end of the day! Looking forwards to seeing what i missed
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BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
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It was very alluring in the advert and I think a few people were interested. Like I say I've wanted one for years so jumped at the opportunity.
I think the only thing you have missed out on is a tonne of problems! I'll try and update this tonight.
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BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
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Jun 23, 2016 19:57:55 GMT
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Once the car had arrived it quickly dawned on me that there was a lot of things I over looked when I viewed the car. Its strange how you can pick up on so much more in a quarter of the time when you're stood on your own drive as apposed to someone elses, or perhaps that's just me. I have never been a huge "concourse" far myself, I could never keep anything that clean, nice and well presented, plus id never leave it anywhere in fear of parking dings. I much prefer something, in my instance to be in a useable state and all I had ever hoped was for this 944 to be some what presentable, nothing more. I went around the car and tried to take note of things that weren't so great. This was the worst. Faded and a little bit of bubbling I was very hopeful that the paint would come back to some level of decency, and with only evenings after work for the next 5 days I tried to set myself a segment an evening that I could crack on with after work. The paint was really strange, it looked like something had been poured over the top of it, something had run down all of the paint work but I have no idea what it is, I hit it with everything I had, snow foam, clay bar, APC, nothing touched it. Can see it quite clearly here. I hit it with a rotary polisher and some SRP and it came up good enough to keep me happy. I then moved onto the rest of the car, it took a good few days, and the result isn't fantastic, but I am happy enough! Next we will move onto trying to start the thing.
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Ray Singh
Posted a lot
More German exotica in my garage now
Posts: 1,984
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Jun 23, 2016 20:27:29 GMT
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Fantastic work! I am impressed. My 944 is making me go mental at the moment, but mine starts and drives. You have it worse, but you arent giving up like me.....
Keep us updated, your thread might just give me the courage i need. If you need parts let me know, I have a fair few in my garage and have a man who has everything.
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Last Edit: Jun 23, 2016 20:32:49 GMT by Ray Singh
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BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
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Jun 23, 2016 20:36:55 GMT
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Fantastic work! I am impressed. My 944 is making me go mental at the moment, but mine starts and drives. You have it worse, but you arent giving up like me..... Keep us updated, your thread might just give me the courage i need. Thanks very much Ray! Still a very long way to go though. I sure hope so Ray, if you're ever feeling bad about yours come in here and check this one out, because your a million miles ahead of me. Like I've said in your for sale thread and build thread I really do hope you decide to keep your 944. Personally I am quite envious of yours. I have to say that out of all of the cars I've worked on I've found the 944 quite refreshing because there is a lot of resources online giving some excellent advice. Have you ever used "Clarks Garage"? Specifically aimed at the 944 and really does help give that boost. I would offer to come help, but I think you're a fair journey from me down here in Kent which is a shame.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:51:52 GMT
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I wouldn't be surprised if the streaks on the paintwork was a result of some one trying to wash the car with washing up liquid.
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1955 Austin A30 1981 Jawa Mustang 1990 Trabant 601 (Tommy) 1989 Trabant 601 2009 Jaguar XF 2012 Toyota AYGO 2018 Scomadi TL
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BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
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Jun 23, 2016 21:01:15 GMT
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That did briefly cross my mind, or some sort of cleaner that was too acidic.
The car was parked under a tree, of which 3 years worth of debris has ended up in every cavity of the car, I wondered if it was sap or some kind of tee substance that had washed over the car.
Either way with a few passes of Auto Glym Super Resin Polish it seems to have come up suitably enough, would still like to know what it was though mind.
The areas like the roof, bonnet and the tops of the wider arches seem to have suffered from the damage far worse, the bonnet took a good 4 hours and still isn't done. I haven't even moved onto the roof yet, think that might need some wet sanding.
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Jun 23, 2016 21:48:46 GMT
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I'd guess at tree sap too,horrible stuff to shift when it's left a long time. Looks great,theres something very therapeutic about turning a flat pink car into a shiny red one again,even flat pink Corsa's make want to grab a polisher
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BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
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Jun 25, 2016 18:52:21 GMT
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Annoyingly after doing the whole car, bar the roof which I think might need wet sanding I came home and found that after a lot of rain the paint has started showing the horrible running signs again. I will have to polish it again and see what happens if I apply a layer of was. When I bought the car I was told it was a non runner due to a fault in the starter motor. The seller then showed me a brand new 944 starter motor which he said he hadn't got around to fitting. So the other day I set about installing the starter motor. I got the car up in the air and had a little look, something concerned me before I even touched anything. As you can see from the photo someone has run their own exciter wire to the starter motor, I traced the wire back and someone at some point has pulled out the lighter in the centre console and replaced it with a push button which I hadn't even noticed. I pulled the starter out and checked it over. I took a jumper pack, earthed the body and bridged the permanent live and the exciter pin, sure enough the thing spun straight up. So I threw the old starter back in and threw the new one on the shelf for future use or I got under the car with my multimeter, sure enough I was getting a perm 12V but the exciter wire was not showing 12V when the key was turned. I had this problem recently in a Vito and it turned out to be an earth inside the ECU had burnt out, so I suspected that tracking down this problem may take a while. A reliable friend put money on it being the switch behind the barrel and he has a bit of 944 experience so I took his word for it. The proper Porsche part was £44 but I discovered they were the same as MK1/2 golf, early Jettas, and a couple of other things. A phone call to a VAG supplier saw me with a new switch for £6. After having a look through the Haynes manual (for this model it is actually pretty good for once) the removal and refit seemed to be a bit of a headache. Steering wheel off, controls off, steering column top bearing out, I thought it was going to be a right pain in the chuff but once I got home I set about it. It didn't take too long to have everything out. Here is a comparison of the new switch and the old one, you can clearly see how it has burnt out, cracked and otherwise damaged itself, I started to wonder to myself, did the previous owner have the starter motor incorrectly diagnosed as the fault, seen as the starter was fine and this switch is clearly knackered? With the new switch in it was time to check the motor over... I took the plugs out and got on the bottom pulley to give it a crank, little bit of diesel down the bore. No force if any and the engine was turning over, huge success. New oils, plugs and filters up front. I then got in the back and pulled the hose out of the fuel pump and dumped the 20 litres of dirty old fuel out of the tank. Topped up with 5L of fresh. Then came the time to crank, New switch worked and the starter motor turned off of the key, so the faulty starter diagnosis was well wrong, but even with a bit of fresh fuel down the bores nothing. I got up front and run a starter button up into the engine bay so I could crank and check for a spark at the same time. Coil is getting 12V but no spark. When cranking the coil drops to 9V, resistance across the coil was within tolerance so I was a bit stumped. Another problem was the fuel pump was not priming, I was getting nothing at all.
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Jun 25, 2016 19:36:48 GMT
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Check for an immobiliser switch somewhere, no spark and no fuel is too much of a coincidence.
Is there a remote alarm or anything?
Inertia switch got tripped?
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Last Edit: Jun 25, 2016 19:38:00 GMT by dodgerover
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BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
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Jun 25, 2016 20:45:55 GMT
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Check for an immobiliser switch somewhere, no spark and no fuel is too much of a coincidence. Is there a remote alarm or anything? Inertia switch got tripped? My thoughts exactly, no fuel pump and no spark seemed way too much of a coincidence for them to be superset problems, however all of my checked seemed to come back ok on the immobiliser. Hopefully I will be able to throw a new update in tonight or tomorrow.
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This looks really good bud! and you seem to be setting about it very well at quite some rate! i quite like these old porsches tbh, was following one the otherday and just thinking what a good looking thing its was :-) I should add btw that my old ford is waay pinker than your porsche was ;-) I even have multi tonal pink and red panels.. Tho after your good efforts I'm not sure whether to defend the pink paint or make it red again!
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munky
Part of things
Posts: 462
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Jun 26, 2016 13:33:29 GMT
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Hey there Redfax. Congratulations on your new toy!
I've been looking at 924s for a while - went to buy one recently but came home with a different car... (Long story but spent quite a bit more than I should have).
I think the problem you have with your paint is oxidation. It's difficult to say for certain without seeing it in person and feeling the surface, but from your pictures and know a little about paints, that's where my money would be.
What happens is that some paints - especially high pigment paints such as red, are not as UV stable as others. I don't know what year your '44 is, but I think in 85 (which is a wild guess) Porsche used a single, non clear coated paint.
The paint you have cut off had some milky traces in it, but I think there may have been some further down in the paint surface, that was wetted out by the top cutting material. When the car sat in the rain, it cleaned that up from the surface with the chemicals in the rain.
I'm no pro when it comes to detailing, but have managed to correct a couple of 80's red cars (an '88 MR2 was the worst) due to UV damage.
I'm sure a detailed can tell you better than me, but I have used products like colorX in the past (after a more abrasive cut) and then and most importantly sealed the surface of the paint a couple of times.
Try asking a detailing company what they would recommend, or google it. Tell them it's a red 80's Porsche with oxidized paint. I've been out of the U.K. For 10years now, so I'm not sure what brands are available, but I think you probably need another very light cut (after washing and clay baring the car again) and then seal, polish and more polish!
Good luck with the '44. Make sure you are 100% happy with the condition of your timing belt. If the car was mine and had stood for that long, they would be the first thing on my service list!
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Last Edit: Jun 26, 2016 13:35:21 GMT by munky
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Jun 26, 2016 14:21:19 GMT
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Big fan of these cars, you'll get it to run and it looks miles better already!
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Porsche
West Midlands
Kev from B'ham.
Posts: 4,725
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Jun 26, 2016 16:08:42 GMT
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Last Edit: Jun 26, 2016 16:13:09 GMT by Porsche
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BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
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Jun 26, 2016 21:09:49 GMT
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This looks really good bud! and you seem to be setting about it very well at quite some rate! i quite like these old porsches tbh, was following one the otherday and just thinking what a good looking thing its was :-) I should add btw that my old ford is waay pinker than your porsche was ;-) I even have multi tonal pink and red panels.. Tho after your good efforts I'm not sure whether to defend the pink paint or make it red again! Thanks very much, I try to get home from work and cross something off the list an evening, I am eager to get it on the road and every little helps I guess. You know what I have never actually seen one on the road, my friends neighbour had one dumped in his back yard many years ago and there is a chap I drive past in borden that has two white ones in a compound covered in muck and moss. Only ever seen a 928 on the roads, closest ive got. Do it, pink to red is hugely satisfying! Hey there Redfax. Congratulations on your new toy! I've been looking at 924s for a while - went to buy one recently but came home with a different car... (Long story but spent quite a bit more than I should have). I think the problem you have with your paint is oxidation. It's difficult to say for certain without seeing it in person and feeling the surface, but from your pictures and know a little about paints, that's where my money would be. What happens is that some paints - especially high pigment paints such as red, are not as UV stable as others. I don't know what year your '44 is, but I think in 85 (which is a wild guess) Porsche used a single, non clear coated paint. The paint you have cut off had some milky traces in it, but I think there may have been some further down in the paint surface, that was wetted out by the top cutting material. When the car sat in the rain, it cleaned that up from the surface with the chemicals in the rain. I'm no pro when it comes to detailing, but have managed to correct a couple of 80's red cars (an '88 MR2 was the worst) due to UV damage. I'm sure a detailed can tell you better than me, but I have used products like colorX in the past (after a more abrasive cut) and then and most importantly sealed the surface of the paint a couple of times. Try asking a detailing company what they would recommend, or google it. Tell them it's a red 80's Porsche with oxidized paint. I've been out of the U.K. For 10years now, so I'm not sure what brands are available, but I think you probably need another very light cut (after washing and clay baring the car again) and then seal, polish and more polish! Good luck with the '44. Make sure you are 100% happy with the condition of your timing belt. If the car was mine and had stood for that long, they would be the first thing on my service list! Wow! Thanks for taking to time to write up such a comprehensive reply. The paint on my car seems to be a bit mysterious, it is advised that the car ad a full body respray about 5 years ago, this is apparent because someone has masked around the body mouldings, window seals and other areas very poorly. Yet, the drives side door has started to fade through with very thin paint, so I can only assume some paint is original whilst others are not. There is areas of damage to the paint and it is the furthest thing from mint, or presentable for that matter. I hope to learn a lot from this car so perhaps a respray or vinyl wrap may be on the cars later down the line. I am registered on detailing world, so I may have to jump back on there and ask some questions, I have wondered if a slightly abrasive compound (farcela G3?) would give better results. I will have to revisit the bodywork and have a little experiment, however it is very interesting to read your remarks on paint and thanks very much for sharing it with me, I know a lot more about it now than I did. In regards to the timing and balance belts, they do look quite decent, but history is totally unknown so these will be pulled out and replaced, however it is a very long time since I have done a timing belt, so I may have to mention to a far more experienced friend at work and see if he would be prepared to oversee me doing the work and pick up on any mistakes. Thanks once again. Big fan of these cars, you'll get it to run and it looks miles better already! Time seems to have served them well, they seem to have got more refined with age. Thanks for the confidence, I am hopeful it will get there, it has to! Love that 924 and it is in one of my photo albums some where, sure is a credit to the builder, but I wonder if it has been repainted rather than polished, either way it does look top, sure is a bit of inspiration when I was looking at my pink neglected 924. Thanks for the link to that thread, I actually asked a few questions in that thread last year when I had a hankering for a Porsche and am responsible for the last post of images, that thread has a heck of a lot to do with why I have a 944 in the garage!
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BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
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Jun 27, 2016 16:27:11 GMT
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As much as I was enjoying my Porsche ownership and polishing, something just wasn't right, obviously, it didn't start and I was getting no spark. I was on the brink of being robbed blind for a new coil, or throwing all new leads in, plugs and dizzy, but I was a little apprehensive as to if that would actually work and obviously that wouldn't solve my problem. I asked on here for some help and Porsche (thanks again) recommended I looked into the DME relay, Thank fully there was a lot of info online. This was what I used, www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/fuel-05.htmI made myself a relay jumper, 3 cable lengths and some spade terminals, plugged it into my relay position and sure enough the fuel pump primed, sweet I thought, problem is the £20 relay. Cranked the engine over on the key with the hope of it firing over but nothing. I got some assistance and even with the fuel jumper in, no spark what so ever. As I was sat in the car cranking I noticed the rev needle didn't jump, sat dead flat and after a Google I discovered that this is not normal and that the problem could have something to do with Speed and Reference sensors, two sensors that do the same job a a crank sensor from my understanding, but there are two, if either doesn't work properly the car will not start. I thought it has to be this, so before even testing my ones I bought two replacement sensors. The following day I set about removing my sensors in preparation for the arrival of my replacement items. Once again this link here showed me all I needed to know... www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/ign-02.htmI jumped in my bay and found the sensors easy enough. I unplugged them and tested them, speed sensor was in tolerance at 1048ohms, advised is 600>1600. The reference sensor however was out, quite significantly, I cant remember the exact figure, but I think it was around 2500ohms. I figured this must be my problem, after reading horror stories about trying to get these out I was prepared for the worst. Here you can see where they are located, what a nice job at repairing a bracket with zip ties some one has done there as well hey? I got the sensor out and this was on the end. I wonder, I cleaned the stuff off the end of the sensor and retested it, 1050ohms, nearly exactly the same as the other sensor. I threw the sensor back in, didn't even bolt it down, just wondering. I put my fuel jumper in and cranked the key. IT RUNS!!! I was incredibly happy, although initially tappy it quietened down very quickly, oil pressure seems very good and temperature seems ok, fan kicks in as it should. With this very small victory I thought I would pull it out from where it has been sat for the last week and a half so I could have another proper look at it without having to get the winch out and winch it back into the garage, I could drive it this time! Plus I wanted to see if the thing actually moved. Once again, here is a photo of it when it arrived. And here it is now, red and running. So now it is running, and I know it moves, its on to get it sorted for its MOT. Unfortunately the list is very long, but I will go into that later, now I'm just happy with the fact I figured why it wont work.
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