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Aug 25, 2016 12:09:02 GMT
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Oh I dunno, many Lotus owners will tell you that hibernation or very irregular use is asking for problems. I'm now in the process of bringing my Excel out of hibernation, it went away with no issues and now has niggles that are boiling my p*ss. If only id have just kept it in use even for a few days every week!! That could just be an old car thang, I've had classics in daily use where every time I rectified an issue another 2 things go wrong. In fairness I don't think the Excel ever suffered from a major component unreliability issue like the Esprit did. I do agree that it's good to use your classic regularly. Have you attempted installing a p*ss cooler?
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Last Edit: Aug 26, 2016 10:17:10 GMT by MkX
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Aug 25, 2016 12:55:56 GMT
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Oh I dunno, many Lotus owners will tell you that hibernation or very irregular use is asking for problems. I'm now in the process of bringing my Excel out of hibernation, it went away with no issues and now has niggles that are boiling my p*ss. If only id have just kept it in use even for a few days every week!! That could just be an old car thang, I've had classics in daily use where every time I rectified an issue another 2 things go wrong. In fairness I don't think the excel ever suffered from a major component unreliability issue like the Esprit did. I do agree that it's good to use your classic regularly. Have you attempted installing a p*ss cooler? Its actually got a working ice cold aircon, not too shabby for a 25 year old car. Yeah, probably and old car thang!
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danc
Part of things
Posts: 42
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Aug 25, 2016 13:04:17 GMT
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Some people eh? It's almost as if this was a forum full of people who like old, weird, obscure cars And so do I. But the thread is not about old, weird, obscure cars. It's about a Pantera and cars like it.
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danc
Part of things
Posts: 42
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Aug 25, 2016 13:31:23 GMT
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That's not really it. An original GT40 would definitely scratch the itch and there are few others which would too. But when somebody asks for alternatives to a De Tomaso Pantera and you post an old Subaru as a suggestion, well.
Don't be too dismissive of people who are only trying to help. You have umpteen cars offered as a suggestion and most of them you have turned your nose up at. What more do you want? There isn't a magic wand that will conjure up an alternative that suits you, its all about perspective, your idea of an alternative isn't necessarily anybody elses, of course you are going to get wide ranging ideas!! So tell us what cars out there would scratch your itch, give something back to the contributors of this thread. I thought I did just that on my long post on page 2. However I'm not surprised you are calling me out on it even after I've done it. It seems many skip to the end of the thread without reading. Obliviously nothing will be 100% Pantera besides a Pantera just like nothing will 100% a Toyota Tercell besides a Tercell. But I did point out the good suggestions which could work. What I don't understand is why you are saying I'm being too dismissive. After a few pages of quite off suggestions, off enough for other members to start making jokes about it, I finally strongly dismiss ONE, and I'm labeled "too dismissive". And who is turning the nose up on anything? I considered them, thanked the people who suggested them and moved on. It's this rude? Am I expect to take up every suggestion? I don't understand your attitude. I'm not expecting a magic wand that will conjure up an alternative that suits me. And while I agree it's all about perspective, there is a limit. Specially in forum for cars enthusiasts I believe people are more aware of car categories. So when somebody asks for alternatives or cars which are like or similar to a Pantera, suggestions such as Countach, GT40, Esprit, Jalpa, Merak/Bora, 308 and the like and even a Corvette are in the same alley. Even cars which are clearly not in the same bracket such as the 3000ME, the Saab etc are still OK suggestions because they are at least sports cars. But how is a two-door saloon even a consideration? If I had asked for alternatives to a BMW M3, then definitely. It is not about being good cars or not. It is about fitting the main topic. The SVX was also not the first saloon or extreme off suggestion either. To close, it seems you are calling me rude. So I would like to ask you this. How is dismissing a clearly unfit suggestion more rude than skipping to the end of the thread and posting without interest of where the conversation stands at? Because I can't find another explanation for same model cars being posted multiple times when they have already been addressed. I have already thanked all who took the time to read the thread and post and continue to do so. So I'm not sure what else it's expected. I can't possibly take all suggestions just so not to bruise people's egos. I don't know how to be more polite than thanking them for posting and explaining why I don't like it.
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danc
Part of things
Posts: 42
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Aug 25, 2016 13:35:18 GMT
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Sure. But is there a supercar which is not unreliable or high maintenance? Apart from maybe the NSX. I don't really think this is what keeps Esprits prices down. But what is high maintenance concerning the Esprit which is out of the spectrum of a car of that nature? I don't think quite as unreliable as the Esprit. Yes other supercars needed frequent servicing which would be expensive work but I think most cars would find that kept issues in check between services / maintenance. I've heard horror stories of Esprits having factory replacement gearboxes which only lasted hundreds of miles, obviously once the car was out of warranty you could be in serious trouble & involved with significant ongoing expense. Colin Chapman's approach to auto design was to bring affordable speed to the middle class which duly filtered down as secondhand speed to the working class. His cars weren't megabucks to start with when you compared them to other cars with similar performance. The first tenet of his formula was to keep it as light as possible, lightness negated the need for big engines which in turn helped to keep the weight down. The second part of this formula was extracting maximum power from these small lightweight engines. My Dad is friendly with John Teychenne who was supplying the chassis to Lotus in the early days, (John, at 90, is the only principal figure still alive from the early days of Lotus), he's spoken to my Dad of how Chapman would obsess about using increasingly thinner metal & narrower tubing on the frames to shave a pound or two off the overall weight of a car. The end result was cars which were light, fast, chuckable & relatively inexpensive but often very compromised in terms of build quality & ride. Creature comforts / equipment just weren't considered in the Chapman formula. He moved from using tin-foil thin aluminium panels to pioneering fibreglass designs. A fibreglass body on a lightweight chassis is lighter than a steel monococque but fibreglass inherently has its own problems, you could find yourself having to regularly repair / respray. Crashes, even fairly low speed ones can have disastrous & very expensive results. How many fibreglass supercars can you think of? Probably not many and they're at the cheaper end of the range. The fastest car I've ever seen around the track at Castle Combe was a TVR Cerbera but again these cars weren't megabucks to buy new and are a very realistic proposition as secondhand buy. I've got a bit of a soft spot for the Jensen CV8, it was a bona fide early 1960's supercar but because it was produced with a fibreglass body the prices have never become absurd. I think with fibreglass cars there's always an issue in getting the cars to feel 'tight', they vibrate, they rattle they don't feel expensive. People who are spending big money on a fast car prefer to be sat inside real metal. In later years Lotus made a bit of an effort to make certain models look & feel like a luxury item but this was a cosmetic exercise done on the cheap and this 'luxury' equipment is very often cheap bits from other manufacturers & often unreliable. I've never been in an Esprit but I imagine they might not feel as good as they look, they probably feel cheap, rattly & wobbly with a tremendously hard ride, I imagine the later cars are better than the earlier ones. When you factor in the regular main dealer maintenance & periodic reliability issues, bodywork maintenance, their attractiveness wanes even more and that's why prices have never been silly. Just my thoughts anyway. I'd love an Esprit but it certainly isn't a car for everyday use! I have to find some time to go up and drive my friend's again. He has nothing but praise for it. But it's a 90's model. Maybe the problems are more in the 70's and 80's models? Furthermore, I'm not sure it's a fiberglass problem. Several cars are fiberglass body and are fine. I see no problems with the Corvettes. Fiberglass, Carbon fiber and plastics have advantages too. Not only the weight but in old cars it means no body rust. One less thing to worry about. So maybe it's more of a Esprit fiberglass problem than fiberglass in general. Or maybe again the earlier Esprits.
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Last Edit: Aug 25, 2016 13:38:01 GMT by danc
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Aug 25, 2016 14:09:02 GMT
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Can i suggest to really unrealistic supercars although even finding one could be nightmare. yet alone affording one. also styling wise i think both are more like a Cerbera. so much want for the Invicta i guess sometimes the names make the car.
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Aug 25, 2016 14:32:04 GMT
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I have to find some time to go up and drive my friend's again. He has nothing but praise for it. But it's a 90's model. Maybe the problems are more in the 70's and 80's models? Furthermore, I'm not sure it's a fiberglass problem. Several cars are fiberglass body and are fine. I see no problems with the Corvettes. Fiberglass, Carbon fiber and plastics have advantages too. Not only the weight but in old cars it means no body rust. One less thing to worry about. So maybe it's more of a Esprit fiberglass problem than fiberglass in general. Or maybe again the earlier Esprits. That's fine, perhaps the fibreglass isn't so much of an issue for Lotus, some manufacturers are better than others, I've traveled in umpteen fibreglass bodied classics which all seem to suffer from flimsiness with eventual cracking & crazing. I note Lotus did a number of things to the fibreglass bodywork of the later Esprit to 'improve torsional rigidity' so the earlier cars must have had an issue.
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Aug 25, 2016 17:23:04 GMT
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Don't be too dismissive of people who are only trying to help. You have umpteen cars offered as a suggestion and most of them you have turned your nose up at. What more do you want? There isn't a magic wand that will conjure up an alternative that suits you, its all about perspective, your idea of an alternative isn't necessarily anybody elses, of course you are going to get wide ranging ideas!! So tell us what cars out there would scratch your itch, give something back to the contributors of this thread. I thought I did just that on my long post on page 2. However I'm not surprised you are calling me out on it even after I've done it. It seems many skip to the end of the thread without reading. Obliviously nothing will be 100% Pantera besides a Pantera just like nothing will 100% a Toyota Tercell besides a Tercell. But I did point out the good suggestions which could work. What I don't understand is why you are saying I'm being too dismissive. After a few pages of quite off suggestions, off enough for other members to start making jokes about it, I finally strongly dismiss ONE, and I'm labeled "too dismissive". And who is turning the nose up on anything? I considered them, thanked the people who suggested them and moved on. It's this rude? Am I expect to take up every suggestion? I don't understand your attitude. I'm not expecting a magic wand that will conjure up an alternative that suits me. And while I agree it's all about perspective, there is a limit. Specially in forum for cars enthusiasts I believe people are more aware of car categories. So when somebody asks for alternatives or cars which are like or similar to a Pantera, suggestions such as Countach, GT40, Esprit, Jalpa, Merak/Bora, 308 and the like and even a Corvette are in the same alley. Even cars which are clearly not in the same bracket such as the 3000ME, the Saab etc are still OK suggestions because they are at least sports cars. But how is a two-door saloon even a consideration? If I had asked for alternatives to a BMW M3, then definitely. It is not about being good cars or not. It is about fitting the main topic. The SVX was also not the first saloon or extreme off suggestion either. To close, it seems you are calling me rude. So I would like to ask you this. How is dismissing a clearly unfit suggestion more rude than skipping to the end of the thread and posting without interest of where the conversation stands at? Because I can't find another explanation for same model cars being posted multiple times when they have already been addressed. I have already thanked all who took the time to read the thread and post and continue to do so. So I'm not sure what else it's expected. I can't possibly take all suggestions just so not to bruise people's egos. I don't know how to be more polite than thanking them for posting and explaining why I don't like it. I did read your gushing thanks, it doesn't negate you being rude. If the suggestion is 'clearly unfit' don't reply. This is another thread that will go round and round in circles and disappear up its own fundament. Save up and by a Pantera.
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danc
Part of things
Posts: 42
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Aug 25, 2016 19:48:51 GMT
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I thought I did just that on my long post on page 2. However I'm not surprised you are calling me out on it even after I've done it. It seems many skip to the end of the thread without reading. Obliviously nothing will be 100% Pantera besides a Pantera just like nothing will 100% a Toyota Tercell besides a Tercell. But I did point out the good suggestions which could work. What I don't understand is why you are saying I'm being too dismissive. After a few pages of quite off suggestions, off enough for other members to start making jokes about it, I finally strongly dismiss ONE, and I'm labeled "too dismissive". And who is turning the nose up on anything? I considered them, thanked the people who suggested them and moved on. It's this rude? Am I expect to take up every suggestion? I don't understand your attitude. I'm not expecting a magic wand that will conjure up an alternative that suits me. And while I agree it's all about perspective, there is a limit. Specially in forum for cars enthusiasts I believe people are more aware of car categories. So when somebody asks for alternatives or cars which are like or similar to a Pantera, suggestions such as Countach, GT40, Esprit, Jalpa, Merak/Bora, 308 and the like and even a Corvette are in the same alley. Even cars which are clearly not in the same bracket such as the 3000ME, the Saab etc are still OK suggestions because they are at least sports cars. But how is a two-door saloon even a consideration? If I had asked for alternatives to a BMW M3, then definitely. It is not about being good cars or not. It is about fitting the main topic. The SVX was also not the first saloon or extreme off suggestion either. To close, it seems you are calling me rude. So I would like to ask you this. How is dismissing a clearly unfit suggestion more rude than skipping to the end of the thread and posting without interest of where the conversation stands at? Because I can't find another explanation for same model cars being posted multiple times when they have already been addressed. I have already thanked all who took the time to read the thread and post and continue to do so. So I'm not sure what else it's expected. I can't possibly take all suggestions just so not to bruise people's egos. I don't know how to be more polite than thanking them for posting and explaining why I don't like it. I did read your gushing thanks, it doesn't negate you being rude. If the suggestion is 'clearly unfit' don't reply. This is another thread that will go round and round in circles and disappear up its own fundament. Save up and by a Pantera. What gushing? Oh, so that was gushing in your eyes? Taking the time to write a detailed post addressing all that was suggested is gushing in your opinion. Interesting. And I thought I was being polite to all who took the time to reply and suggest. What do I know. Thinking again, I'm not sure the problem is on this side though. Not reply to unfit suggestions is exactly what I did. To all but one. The one you jumped on me for it. The single one. So I'm being rude in your eyes. OK then. How would you characterize your behavior then? You know what, don't bother. I'm sorry if you drive a SVX, or any Subaru, or any Japanese car for that matter and got offended. This is the only thing that would make sense of your overreaction. I never said it was a bad car. Just that it has absolutely nothing to do with a Pantera or any car in that category.
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danc
Part of things
Posts: 42
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Aug 25, 2016 19:50:52 GMT
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I have to find some time to go up and drive my friend's again. He has nothing but praise for it. But it's a 90's model. Maybe the problems are more in the 70's and 80's models? Furthermore, I'm not sure it's a fiberglass problem. Several cars are fiberglass body and are fine. I see no problems with the Corvettes. Fiberglass, Carbon fiber and plastics have advantages too. Not only the weight but in old cars it means no body rust. One less thing to worry about. So maybe it's more of a Esprit fiberglass problem than fiberglass in general. Or maybe again the earlier Esprits. That's fine, perhaps the fibreglass isn't so much of an issue for Lotus, some manufacturers are better than others, I've traveled in umpteen fibreglass bodied classics which all seem to suffer from flimsiness with eventual cracking & crazing. I note Lotus did a number of things to the fibreglass bodywork of the later Esprit to 'improve torsional rigidity' so the earlier cars must have had an issue. If Lotus improved a lot in the later models that would make sense why he praises his so much.
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danc
Part of things
Posts: 42
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Aug 25, 2016 19:55:46 GMT
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Can i suggest to really unrealistic supercars although even finding one could be nightmare. yet alone affording one. also styling wise i think both are more like a Cerbera. so much want for the Invicta i guess sometimes the names make the car. Hey, I had forgotten about the Invicta S1. It's an interesting car for sure. The blue one is not my taste though. But the S1 is quite peculiar and yes, very rare.
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Aug 25, 2016 21:19:07 GMT
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I did read your gushing thanks, it doesn't negate you being rude. If the suggestion is 'clearly unfit' don't reply. This is another thread that will go round and round in circles and disappear up its own fundament. Save up and by a Pantera. What gushing? Oh, so that was gushing in your eyes? Taking the time to write a detailed post addressing all that was suggested is gushing in your opinion. Interesting. And I thought I was being polite to all who took the time to reply and suggest. What do I know. Thinking again, I'm not sure the problem is on this side though. Not reply to unfit suggestions is exactly what I did. To all but one. The one you jumped on me for it. The single one. So I'm being rude in your eyes. OK then. How would you characterize your behavior then? You know what, don't bother. I'm sorry if you drive a SVX, or any Subaru, or any Japanese car for that matter and got offended. This is the only thing that would make sense of your overreaction. I never said it was a bad car. Just that it has absolutely nothing to do with a Pantera or any car in that category. No, I drive a Lotus, a 3rd generation Firebird and a Skoda for a daily. I like Japanese cars, Christ I even get moist over a modded Lada. Now calm down and have some toast.
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Thankyou for reminding me about the Invicta S1 - a fabulous looking car which I haven't seen since I saw a prototype one at the MPH Show at the NEC several years ago. OP - if you have the budget and the know-how, why not buy a V8 engine and construct your own kit car to suit your intriguing tastes?
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danc
Part of things
Posts: 42
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I'm not a fan of kit cars. None of them look really good. All the kits look cheap. I particularly hate replicas. In the end of the day it's just a fake. Apart from very, very rare things or impossible to get, replicas are silly in my opinion. Like replicas of cars you can buy such as Lamborghinis and Ferraris. So it would have to be a very well built, original design, custom one of a kind. Too much money and work.
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Just buy a Pantera, nothing else is going to do for you, if you can't afford a Pantera, then just live with it. this thread is pointless, every suggestion you just reject.
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prpr
Kinda New
Posts: 2
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Aug 26, 2016 11:29:37 GMT
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Last Edit: Aug 26, 2016 11:31:40 GMT by prpr
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jamesv
Part of things
Posts: 207
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Aug 26, 2016 11:43:03 GMT
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Whilst not necessarily hitting the styling, or ''racing' marks, this is probably one of the closest things you'll find in terms of ethos, Italian, with a big Yank v8 in it. Needs a bit of a T-cut mind...
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Last Edit: Aug 26, 2016 11:43:35 GMT by jamesv
James, Mk1 Golf 16v ITB'd, RS's, TT interior - in bits Affalterbach tweaked CLK - commuter mobile And a couple of GSXR's
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Aug 26, 2016 15:04:00 GMT
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Needs a bit of a T-cut mind... The patina on that thing is amazing. Would be amazing to fix it up mechanically and leave all the rust/watermarks/blemishes. You never see grotty old exotics, as it's sort of an oxymoron, but I think that looks aces.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:13:02 GMT
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also this is incredible
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Aug 26, 2016 18:00:53 GMT
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These threads have happened so many time. OP wants X car, but can't afford it (or it seems like they can maybe but are wanting some sort of validation to spend the money) Forumites suggest every car under the sun, all of which fulfill at least one requirement of the OP. OP doesn't like anything suggested. Forumites keep trying in a good natured way OP keeps coming up with lamer and lamer reasons why they don't like anything else Forumites get annoyed as OP clearly just wants X car and nothing else. OP has a hissy fit. Forumites also have hissy fit. Everything goes pear shaped. Basically OP, if you don't realise it, you need to get a Pantera. Even if you had to borrow some money just go for it. As long as you don't buy a lemon and you look after it it won't reduce in value so you'll be pretty safe in that regard. If you REALLY can't afford one, just forget it. You won't get any other car which will give you the same satisfaction so you need to maybe try some of the cars mentioned above which might give you a different thrill or satisfaction or styling you'll enjoy anyway. A true car guy will find something to float their boat in their budget!!
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The Millenium Volcon"Get yourself a Volvo if that's what you really want, you might be dead next year. In the meantime, you could be going sideways in a gigantic land barge."
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