Calling MOT Testers. Just what tyre is illegal?

[ChasR]

OK, I know this is being a little tight and technically anything below 3mm is meant to be unsafe depending on who you talk to but it is nice to know when testers or tyre fitters are trying their luck in the hope of a sale with whatever stock they have on the day.

AFAIK I thought the guidelines for passing the MOT were the following:

-The tyres are at least 1.6mm in tread over the centre 75%.
-The outer edges can be bald as long as they are not down to the beads/wires

But, it seems some testers have different opinions. Some reckon that only one side can be bald and that when that gets to the 'second' layer of rubber that is then illegal and so on.

As a tester, would you deem these as illegal or would you have passed and advised? I asked as when I went into the tyre shop I was told they were down to the canvas on the edges, where the rubber was shinier than the rest of the tread (i.e, there was no fabric showing, just another bit of the rubber). The centre still had around 2mm left (maybe slightly more) when measured:



Or this. The middle of the tyre still had 4mm left.

[Rich]

You are correct with the points you raise being the MOT guidelines. 1.6MM across the central 3/4's of the width of the original tread. It's all in the manual. A tester failing anything outside of the criteria is making it up. Although at that tread condition I think we all know it's time to put new rubber on.

[duggers]

Legal is min 1.6mm over 75% of the width at the centre of the tyre for the whole circumference.

Safe, now that's another thing entirely

[ChasR]

Nov 2, 2016 7:42:56 GMT Rich said:

You are correct with the points you raise being the MOT guidelines. 1.6MM across the central 3/4's of the width of the original tread. It's all in the manual. A tester failing anything outside of the criteria is making it up. Although at that tread condition I think we all know it's time to put new rubber on.

To be fair, you're right. I guess I was looking to see what was on the limit of what is passable for an MOT .

Nov 2, 2016 18:00:41 GMT duggers said:

Legal is min 1.6mm over 75% of the width at the centre of the tyre for the whole circumference.

Safe, now that's another thing entirely

That's a good shout. But how old were the old tyres? There are so many factors against this kind of test.

The Top Gear test from years ago was surprising:

[Dez]

I still find it amazing there is no mot inspection related to tyre age or deteriation of condition due to perishing- cracking, etc.

I've had cars come In with tyres that were easily 60 years old, but as they had tread and so much tyre black on em it hid any cracks, they were 'legal'. It took me picking lumps of the sidewall off with my fingernails to convince the old boy who owned it they needed replacing!

[Deleted]

imo both of them tyres need replacing.

seems to be lots of people who really chance it with tyres.

maybe 6 points would be nicer in a few weeks.

[ChasR]

Nov 5, 2016 22:12:47 GMT @oldspice said:

imo both of them tyres need replacing.

seems to be lots of people who really chance it with tyres.

maybe 6 points would be nicer in a few weeks.

I take it you didn't read where I said the wheels had 2mm over 75% of the bredth of the tread around the circumference? It was the edges I was querying.

But those wheels have long gone.

[Deleted]

i did, thats why i put imo.

glad to hear they have gone.

not directed at you but cannot understand people who will not change tyres when they are that low on tread.

its the only thing that hold you on the road.

[mk2cossie]

the tread depth there doesnt look like a fail, but there is also the "ply or cords exposed" failure. If that is the tread part of the tyre worn away on the edge and exposing the ply beneath then it is a fail.

Maybe the benefit of doubt would be given by the tester and just advised on. Depends how tame the tester is with the vehicle presenter

[Davey]

1.6 mm over 75% with visible tread on worn area. So if it's smooth it should fail.

[mk2cossie]

Nov 9, 2016 13:26:23 GMT Davey said:

1.6 mm over 75% with visible tread on worn area. So if it's smooth it should fail.

Over 75% of the tread contact area, so if that edge in the OPs picture isn't touching the ground in normal height position it is pass and advise.

Also only applies to the tread area that is cut to full depth where the tread wear indicator is, so you can have a tyre worn smooth on both edges and only 3 main grooves in the middle and the 75% is applicable to the width of those grooves and not the rest of the tyre itself

It is a bloody nightmare with the way the book is written and each person interprets it a different way. That's one thing I liked about the refresher courses that the DVSA used to do, but now it's all online/on site training and revision

[Rich]

Nov 9, 2016 13:26:23 GMT Davey said:

1.6 mm over 75% with visible tread on worn area. So if it's smooth it should fail.

Only if it's a tyre fitted to a passenger vehicle with more than 8 seats or first used before 1933 and then it is subject to 1MM tread.

The MOT RFR wording-

1. The primary grooves of the tread pattern are
not at least 1.6mm throughout a continuous
band comprising:
 the central three-quarters of the breadth of
tread, and
 round the entire outer circumference of the
tyre.
Note: Each side of the central band of the tyre
can be devoid of tread (i.e. ‘bald’) and still meet
the pass standard.

[ChasR]

Nov 9, 2016 13:37:46 GMT mk2cossie said:

Nov 9, 2016 13:26:23 GMT Davey said:

1.6 mm over 75% with visible tread on worn area. So if it's smooth it should fail.

Over 75% of the tread contact area, so if that edge in the OPs picture isn't touching the ground in normal height position it is pass and advise.

Also only applies to the tread area that is cut to full depth where the tread wear indicator is, so you can have a tyre worn smooth on both edges and only 3 main grooves in the middle and the 75% is applicable to the width of those grooves and not the rest of the tyre itself

It is a bloody nightmare with the way the book is written and each person interprets it a different way. That's one thing I liked about the refresher courses that the DVSA used to do, but now it's all online/on site training and revision

This is precisely why I asked as the requirements do seem vague or maybe I want too much info.

I take it you are a tester yourself.

TBH Dez I do agree about the age & condition. While those tyres weren't the best I've had 10 year old tyres with 7mm on them which were lethal in comparison!

[froggy]

I've had a proper row with a trader over advising the date stamps on a motorhomes tyres despite them having loads of tread . Call it covering but every mot issue I've had over the last ten years has come from a car sale either trade or private .

[mk2cossie]

Nov 10, 2016 8:49:28 GMT ChasR said:

Nov 9, 2016 13:37:46 GMT mk2cossie said:

Over 75% of the tread contact area, so if that edge in the OPs picture isn't touching the ground in normal height position it is pass and advise.

Also only applies to the tread area that is cut to full depth where the tread wear indicator is, so you can have a tyre worn smooth on both edges and only 3 main grooves in the middle and the 75% is applicable to the width of those grooves and not the rest of the tyre itself

It is a bloody nightmare with the way the book is written and each person interprets it a different way. That's one thing I liked about the refresher courses that the DVSA used to do, but now it's all online/on site training and revision

This is precisely why I asked as the requirements do seem vague or maybe I want too much info.

I take it you are a tester yourself.

TBH Dez I do agree about the age & condition. While those tyres weren't the best I've had 10 year old tyres with 7mm on them which were lethal in comparison!

Yup, for over 10years now from memory.
Still learning and frustrated when DVSA decide to change something in the injection manual or on the computerised system

As for perished tyres, nothing we can do about that on the test. Unless they are that perished that you can see cords through the cracks!