tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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I've been pondering it for a long time anyhoo to the point - how realistic would a bike engine be in a car weighing about 700-750kg's? I'm talking about one of the big 998cc/1300cc engines so about 150-180bhp. How much torque would they have? I've had a look but none of the stat pages give lbft readings.
Also what's the deal with putting the power from the engine to the wheels - I am at a total loss with this part in particular - do they still have to be chain driven in a car?
Any gen would be kinda cool.
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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BiAS
Club Retro Rides Member
Insert witty comment here
Posts: 2,231
Club RR Member Number: 147
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I've thought about it too, I've seen em mounted the other way round with the drive straight out the side of the 'box into a sierra diff. Think it was a fiat 500 with a 900 fireblade lump, possibly in retrocars?
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(car+wheels)-rideheight=WIN
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Aug 15, 2007 10:33:03 GMT
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Bike engines in cars are like car engines in bikes. Some idiot thinks they'll be a good idea on the back of a beermat after 9000 pints but the result is often an expensive monstrosity. Bikes and cars are very different applications and there is a reason why they have very different engines. A bike weighs nothing, comparatively. My XTZ750 is an extremely big bike, yet I can easily shift it around from side to side by lifting its rear wheel. My other bike, a CB400/4, I can lift clear off the ground (though not for long!). By contrast the smallest car I have ever owned, a Mini, I couldn't lift at all. The light weight of the bike means that the bike engine is not designed to shift much about. It's not designed to take much load in other words. It can dump a hell of a lot of power to the rear wheel but it doesn't have to do much work getting there and most of that power comes over a very short rev range. By contrast a car engine is designed to lug around a tonne or more of metal, sound insulation, seats, passengers, luggage and whatever other cr@p. It is therefore designed to work against heavy loads and has a wider power band. Sure you see some trackdayer who's put a 'blade engine in his Locost. What you don't see is all the 'blade engines he's wrecked along the way. Just my 2p Now for gratuitous pain, a few car engined bike monstrosities There's also a grotesque FIAT 127 engined thing I can't find a pic of.
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"Jeremy Clarkson, a man we motor enthusiasts need on our side like Lewis Hamilton's F1 car needs a towing ball and a Sprite Musketeer" My motor
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Aug 15, 2007 10:37:33 GMT
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A friend of mine put a fireblade engine in a Caterham type homebuild & he bought an adaptor to mount the bike 'box output to the flange on his prop, so had prop driven 6sp front engine rwd. Pretty sure he got it from a kit car builders.
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Aug 15, 2007 10:49:28 GMT
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They work in the average lightweight mini/locost/westerham. They weigh what 500kg's?
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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kee
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,990
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Aug 15, 2007 11:03:50 GMT
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they wont last as long as they arent designed to pull the weight of a car, but lie said, they work in kit cars, and in that imp at RRshow, so DO IT ,what car is it, fezza? polo? mini? imp?
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kee
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,990
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Aug 15, 2007 11:04:16 GMT
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also talk to Z-cars, they know a thing or 2
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Aug 15, 2007 11:26:43 GMT
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I'm just banding about ideas for a certain luton wonder that has det'd it's engine and is already booked in for conversion at a garage in bournemouth. So need to make it something interesting if i'm paying for it.
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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Aug 15, 2007 11:31:00 GMT
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How often do you intend to use it?
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Aug 15, 2007 11:48:20 GMT
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Weekends. Not every weekend at that. The other possability is a 13b. Hate pondering this stuff I really do. Would ideally like to keep it buzzy, ligtweight and so on, so not mad keen on a big ol v8.
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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chrisw
Part of things
Posts: 171
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Aug 15, 2007 12:01:04 GMT
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Of the few I've seen (Caterhams and Minis), none have impressed me with their performance.
Bike engines simple arn't designed to haul around more than a couple of hundred kilos and I haven't seen anyone get the weight of somethign with four wheels down that low (thats not to say it hasn't been done, the worlds a big place!)
IMO bike engines are for bikes, car engines are for cars, the overlap between the two is small (I add that because there are some that have been doen that work, I've just not seen them).
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Aug 15, 2007 12:03:17 GMT
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Weekends. Not every weekend at that. The other possability is a 13b. Hate pondering this stuff I really do. Would ideally like to keep it buzzy, ligtweight and so on, so not mad keen on a big ol v8. 1600 zetec se.... on Bike carbs and Megajolt ;D Its designed by Yamaha and is like a Bike engine only bigger and with torque Oh And you can pick them up complete for about £300 ;D If its for anything heavier than about 5-550kg then I`d stay away from Bike engines also Busa lump is £3k to buy Drysump kit is another Grand £4K for 180hp and 80ftlbs....... Id rather have an S2000 engine box rear diff and change from fitting it thank you ;D
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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Aug 15, 2007 12:04:59 GMT
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Reckon the viva's a bit heavy for a bike engine. Bike engines are big on hp but not so much on torque cos they don't need it to haul a few hundred kg of bike around. Stick a 24v senator lump in it, you know you want to ;D
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phatphord
Part of things
Scorpilow
Posts: 674
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Aug 15, 2007 12:18:27 GMT
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1994 Ford Scorpio Lowrider um...and some bikes...
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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Aug 15, 2007 12:28:46 GMT
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Wonder if a Honda goldwing flat 6 would fit, pretty sure they're shaft drive, and they come with an electric reverse gear
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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Aug 15, 2007 12:34:49 GMT
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"The GL1800 is a completely new model with a liquid-cooled flat-six engine with a displacement of 1832 cc. The maximum power is 87 kW or approximately 118 hp at 5500 rpm and the maximum torque is 167 Nm or 17 kgm at 4000 rpm. The frame is completely manufactured out of alumin(i)um. Furthermore the Pro-Arm rear fork is provided with the so-called Pro-Link system (swingarm with monoshock suspension) of which the suspension is adjustable with two memory presets "
Not massive power, but nice and tuneable
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Aug 15, 2007 12:36:08 GMT
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How about 4 v-Twins mounted inline for a bit of V8 goodness?? Does torque add up??
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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Aug 15, 2007 12:43:18 GMT
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I suppose it must do
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Aug 15, 2007 12:53:47 GMT
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I said interesting not nutter-curse word. ;D
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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dugong
Posted a lot
One Of Us Will Live To Rue The Day We Met Each Other (Wire : 2008)
Posts: 3,292
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Aug 15, 2007 13:04:11 GMT
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Tig I believe the spakka way of tranferring drive to the wheels of a bike engined car is to weld a horizontal shaft through the centre of the drive sprocket and then connect said sprocket shaft ends to the hubs.
Obviously this is a massive generalisation and would only really work on a kart, and the tolerances would have to be spot on otherwise you'd get eccentric movement and the shaft would snap. And even if working perfectly you'd get both wheels turning at exactly the same speed so it would be a bit gay at cornering.
I'm guessing you'd need two separate diffs on either side of the sprocket to get the mismatch in speed so you could take a corner.....
Or just bodge some kind of donor vehicle bellhousing and proper gearbox diff combination to the bike engine and sack the sprocket drive off.
Or something. I get easily confused with all this rain.
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