LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,647
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Have a view out my daughters bedroom window surveying my kingdom It's doesn't seem that big randomly in this shot, but the current garage sits at 23 feet long and starts a good 5 feet after the coal house you can see bottom left. The garage will be right up at the back and the current one dismantled and sold. The only real issue I'll think i'll have with planning is if the folks in the bungalow behind have a moan about it. Though I'm sure they didn't care when there monstrosity was built on the rolling fields behind my house 20 years ago... The rear fence is 2.4m high, so the same as my wall height, so they will really only see a 1.6m high roof and I've tried to make that as aesthetically pleasing as possible with the hips and gables etc. You can see the bricks I've laid out to show the 7.7m from the rear fence, so i'll still have a huge garden area and a massive patio once the current garage is gone Yes the conservatory roof needs cleaning, but it really needs pulling down, so meh!
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Wilk
Part of things
Posts: 528
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Sorry not trying to hog your post... just hoping to help I ran visqueene TOTALLY under all the footprint of my base including the pit. It was all taped and sealed. I also used A2 reinforcing throughout the slab and ran a 3/4" bar around the footing to hold it all together. Never had any damp in pit! I also ran conduit into pit for power. Installed 22 double sockets and a dedicated supply for compressor and 16a welder. Have added more since as I hate tripping over cables while working. Remembered to run armoured cable for power but forgot internet I used 13 cube of concrete in 2 pours. Both supplied by concrete pump due to location. Pump owner talked cash so cost 175 a visit
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If it can be fixed with a hammer, then it must be an electrical fault
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,647
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I really do fancy a pit...
I have a lot of things to think about once I gain permission
I've had a quick google as well and it would seem 7m is not that big a span for pre-made 'loft truss' beams like Wilk has.
I'm perfectly happy to install a steel at the half way point to carry load and double up as a beam for block and tackle etc...
Like I've said, once permission is granted we can then look at building regs. It's a one off fee and they are very happy to help and do calculations and the like.
So far the council have been really helpful in accommodating my self made application. Looking on the planning portal, it would seem 99% are done by architects so maybe it's a welcome change to have someone want to do it all themselves...
Oh, and you are def not hogging the thread, any help is much appreciated!
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If your measurements and plans correspond with reality then you are ahead of 40% of the professional architects I've come across...
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Mar 23, 2017 10:13:53 GMT
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I sadly speak from experience here. Before you start building go and see a structural engineer. Over the last 2 years I've had built a new garage 13m x 8m x 6.5 m high. Walls are cavity with insulation and also insulatiin in the floor. There is a room above only 2/3 of it as I have also fitted a 2 post lift. The down stairs is 1 large space. When I applied for planning and building regs the plans showed it split into 3 bays with concrete block separating. When the builders started building I asked them not to build these walls as I thought it would be more useable without. The architect then told me the walls needed to be there as they hold the building together. I then had to pay a structural engineer to design a steel frame to tie the whole building back together. The builders and carpenters all said that it wouldn't be needed. But when the roof trusses went on the building was wobbling something dreadful. I then spent £1000 on 11 7x4" steel windposts and 2 horizontal beams to make the building rigid. They bolt to the walls, trusses and floor. The horizontal beams in the vaulted roof section don't support the roof, they just tie the end wall to the truss section. I also had to board of the whole roof with ply wood to turn the roof structure into one big girder. All this cost a lot more money, time and most of all months of sleepless nights. Lesson learned.
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,647
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Mar 23, 2017 11:24:18 GMT
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It's all good to know. But structural stuff comes next. I'm currently at the 'will they let me build it' stage. Planning don't care about load bearings or sizes of timber. They just want to know how big it is, is it pretty and where will it be going! Along with the scale drawings of what you are planning to build you also have to fill in a form about what it will be built from - brick, timber etc. What you plan of making the roof out of, the doors, all that sort of stuff. Again, if you go through the planning portal website it's all there and is nice and simple, plus it won't let you submit your application until all the check-boxes are ticked. You also have to submit 2 scale maps of the area, a location plan showing the greater area in 1:1250 and a block plan showing a close up of your plot in 1:500 which you have to draw on where you want your new building. These have to be paid for as they are ordinance survey type affairs and they have to have certain details on to be accepted. North arrow, map licence number, centre co-ordinates, proper drawn scales etc. Both came in around £23, so it's not a major issue. This has taken my whole planning application to £200, which is bargainous compared to hiring a bloke to draw some basic things and submit them on your behalf. Here are said plans (with obvious details omitted because: internets)
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Mar 23, 2017 12:53:02 GMT
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Hi, My only concern for you at this time is that if you make the garage look too 'pretty' with that type of roof and I know it makes it look less intrusive. However the authorities might be suspicious you intend in the future to apply for a change of use to a residential building and refuse permission.
Colin
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,647
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Mar 23, 2017 12:58:52 GMT
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They can't just refuse permission for things like that though, they have to follow guidelines and such. If they dislike the roof they have to ask for you to admit different plans with it altered. Besides, who wants to live in a garage
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Mar 23, 2017 13:30:55 GMT
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I understand your only at planning I was just informing you of the mistake I made as I'd never had anything built needing regs before . I paid building regs my £300 and the only thing they wanted was the planning number. I did not have to submit any detailed plans to them. They seem to work on the idea you can build it how you like as long as before they sign it off you provide all the calculations to show it should stay standing up.
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Mar 23, 2017 14:26:42 GMT
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I understand your only at planning I was just informing you of the mistake I made as I'd never had anything built needing regs before . I paid building regs my £300 and the only thing they wanted was the planning number. I did not have to submit any detailed plans to them. They seem to work on the idea you can build it how you like as long as before they sign it off you provide all the calculations to show it should stay standing up. Did building control not come out and measure depth of footings, check restraint straps, lintels etc? That's what you pay the money for - otherwise they can't sign it off.
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,647
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Mar 23, 2017 14:29:28 GMT
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The Planning Portal website suggest building control require full in-depth plans of all aspects of the buildings construction to ponder over for the next 5 weeks.
This to me suggests they do some calculations and the like and come back with recommendations.
It looks like your local authority failed you on that one???
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Mar 23, 2017 14:55:28 GMT
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They won't do any calculations, they'll look at it and anything non standard they will ask for calculations to prove it's ok. For example you want to use a 200 year old arched oak lintel rather than a catnic lintel over a window you would need someone prepared to put their name to it being ok and prove it to BCs satisfaction
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Mar 23, 2017 15:06:21 GMT
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I understand your only at planning I was just informing you of the mistake I made as I'd never had anything built needing regs before . I paid building regs my £300 and the only thing they wanted was the planning number. I did not have to submit any detailed plans to them. They seem to work on the idea you can build it how you like as long as before they sign it off you provide all the calculations to show it should stay standing up. Did building control not come out and measure depth of footings, check restraint straps, lintels etc? That's what you pay the money for - otherwise they can't sign it off. Yes they came out at all the key stages but asked for no evidence of building performance before hand. The building isn't finished yet (even though I'm using it).
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Mar 23, 2017 15:06:37 GMT
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Besides, who wants to live in a garage Hi, It might only be intended to be a garage now. The councils job is to help protect people and the environment. But who would want to live in a 300 year old barn? Have you seen how much they go for now? Colin
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Last Edit: Mar 23, 2017 15:38:08 GMT by colnerov
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Mar 23, 2017 15:10:59 GMT
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The Planning Portal website suggest building control require full in-depth plans of all aspects of the buildings construction to ponder over for the next 5 weeks. This to me suggests they do some calculations and the like and come back with recommendations. It looks like your local authority failed you on that one??? As dodgerover says they don no calculations. They'll ask for the structural engineers report, roof truss calculations, electrical cert etc and that's it. When the building falls down the guy who did the calculations is under scrutiny. This is why they over engineer everything to cover their buts.
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Wilk
Part of things
Posts: 528
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Mar 23, 2017 18:59:24 GMT
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It's me again... If you go for trusses, all you'll need is the oa width from far side of one wall plate to the other and the oa height from wall plate to ridge height I tried Jewsons and Howarth timber and they both did all the calcs and timber specs and just supplied a price per truss From memory the loft trusses weren't silly money compared to std items. Think I had 13 or 14 in total and it cost me an extra 120 ish A friend has a new house with similar size garage but no loft space. His trusses are made from 3x2 whereas mine are nearly 6x2 for ceiling rafters. I've had a 1 ton Harrison lathe suspended off 3 rafters by means of a block n tackle without issue
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If it can be fixed with a hammer, then it must be an electrical fault
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npp
Part of things
Posts: 121
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Mar 23, 2017 20:30:18 GMT
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I sadly speak from experience here. Before you start building go and see a structural engineer. Over the last 2 years I've had built a new garage 13m x 8m x 6.5 m high. (...) wow, that's some garage - easily as big as my house!
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Mar 23, 2017 21:28:08 GMT
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[/quote]wow, that's some garage - easily as big as my house![/quote]
It's bigger than mine. Got to get your priorities right😆
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They can't just refuse permission for things like that though, they have to follow guidelines and such. If they dislike the roof they have to ask for you to admit different plans with it altered. Besides, who wants to live in a garage Err, this guy does!
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,647
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So, last weekend I plotted out the Garage onto my land, damn it was big, very big. My neighbour lent over the fence and also told me he'd received the plans from the council, and 'damn, that big' So in the interest of Neighbourly relationships and also retaining some actual garden space, I redrew the plans and re-submitted them. My house has a feature called a Catslide roof - Basically one side of the gable is longer and comes down lower - so I thought i'd replicate this. I've lost a metre off the length, 2.8m off the width and a metre off the height. The shorter wall also loses 50cm in height over the taller wall, this is where my workbench will be, this gives me 1.87m of head room at that end at it's lowest, and i'm a hefty 1.72m, so it's all good. Anyways, the plans I drew up Garage is now 5m wide, 6m in depth and 3m tall These drawings are all done to scale and i'm really proud of them - who needs an architect? Here's a little mockup of the P4 in there, so plenty of space still...
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