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Thanks Chris. Glad thatit could be my over enthusiastic testing that could be the problem. I have heard back from Fastmovers who also recommend the two adhesives you mentioned in your earlier post, along with their very expensive 400ml tubes of FMT6325 I have ordered the FMT6306-MMA2 to test and will report back in due course in case it helps you or anyone else. Shear testing on body panels would be based upon how the bonded joints deflect / absorb impact energy rather than fatigue testing by attempting to work the panels either side of bonded joint
I have now had a chance to test the Fastmovers FMT6306-MMA2 structural adhesive. I used the same galvanised metal roofing sheet as my previous experiment, rubbed it down with P80, wiped over with thinners, mixed the adhesive with a spatula, and applied. Left the test piece for 24hours and then tried flexing it. After about 20 x 90 degree bends backwards and forwards (40 bends) the joint held but the metal on either side started to show extreme signs of fracture/metal fatigue. Only at this point did the joint show any signs of stripping back from the ends of the butt joints. This stuff looks seriously impressive, especially as it should never have to endure the flexing I have forced on it. As a separate test, I tried the Kent R/B again, using the same methods, to match the Fastmover test. This time, the Kent joint fractured on the first bend!! No contest to my mind. As you say Chris, shear testing on the body panels should be based on the ability to absorb/deflect impact energy along will normal running 'flexing' but this extreme, unreasonable test, considering what the adhesive will actually be used has well pleased me. Thanks for the lead for the product... you may want to get the company rep around to your place!!
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Last Edit: Apr 7, 2019 13:29:41 GMT by Badwolf
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keyring
Part of things
Posts: 913
Club RR Member Number: 47
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Body & Paint Threadkeyring
@keyring
Club Retro Rides Member 47
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I’ve tried using the search function in this thread, but I’ve not had much success with it, so hopefully you won’t mind, but I’m going to get the stuff sorted on the patrol before doing the big amounts of work on the golf... So I’ve got the box section sill to remove and reweld in place on one side, the rear arches to trim and plate, and a few patches on the boot floor. To check I’ve got the right products in my lists before ordering them... Zintec sheet Bilt Hamber etchweld - use this both as a weld through primer and as an etch primer? I already have a u-pol seam sealer Top coat on boot floor/outer arch is a rattle can of the colour I got made up at a local spray store, along with a can of clear Dinitrol 4941 for the inner arches, underside and sills Dinitol ml cavity wax for any cavities No reason to use an epoxy primer on top of the etch I assume, just go straight in with paint? And spray all joins with the weld through primer after cleaning it up before welding, and then spray over the weld afterwards, then seam sealer, then top coat/4941 I think that was my only concerns Thanks Only thing I would change is that I highly recommend using a primer over the etching primer prior to final paint Perfect, thanks for that Chris
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keyring
Part of things
Posts: 913
Club RR Member Number: 47
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Body & Paint Threadkeyring
@keyring
Club Retro Rides Member 47
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Only thing I would change is that I highly recommend using a primer over the etching primer prior to final paint Perfect, thanks for that Chris Also, do you have a recommendation for primer in a can? I'm sure you gave me one before, but I forgot to write it down, and struggled to find it
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Aerosol primers vary - you will be better with a good primer / filler rather than just a cheap thin primer that takes many coats to build - U Pol #5 - is a high build primer that is readily available - you could try a local automotive paint factor who will probably stock their own brand trade range + possibly one of the higher range brands - so called motorist discount centres will also stock a range but they tend to price all the products quite heavily - a quick search on Amazon / E Bay should yield some results or try the link below www.jawel.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=155_158&zenid=9ommk6rkpv7cu7ps7e9tjm92u2
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keyring
Part of things
Posts: 913
Club RR Member Number: 47
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Body & Paint Threadkeyring
@keyring
Club Retro Rides Member 47
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Apr 12, 2019 21:09:17 GMT
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Aerosol primers vary - you will be better with a good primer / filler rather than just a cheap thin primer that takes many coats to build - U Pol #5 - is a high build primer that is readily available - you could try a local automotive paint factor who will probably stock their own brand trade range + possibly one of the higher range brands - so called motorist discount centres will also stock a range but they tend to price all the products quite heavily - a quick search on Amazon / E Bay should yield some results or try the link below www.jawel.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=155_158&zenid=9ommk6rkpv7cu7ps7e9tjm92u2Thanks for this, I ordered up the #5 I’ll hopefully use it this weekend
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Apr 15, 2019 21:00:26 GMT
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Guys I need some advice, rear arch on my Astra has bubbled up and is coming off in a 50p sized area, being a white car it shows up really obviously. It's going to be my wedding car and whilst a weld in repair panel will happen at some point it's not going to be right now and I need to tidy this up temporarily so it doesn't bug me in pictures. What's the best way of tackling it? As a temp measure I was going to dig out what I can, use rust treatment (which one?) On what's left, bridge the hole (how?) And obviously work through grades of sandpaper to level off. Then as I cant paint the whole quarter how do you blend paint in? Luckily the mk3 rear arch has a straight edge on the wheel arch, but I always seem to end up with with a cloudy edge where I've painted up to? Sorry for all the questions, been let down twice and I'm at the point I've got to tackle it myself and soon.
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Last Edit: Apr 15, 2019 21:02:43 GMT by astranaut
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Apr 15, 2019 22:36:18 GMT
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If it's only for photos then stick a bit of white tape over it, camera wont see it. Hydrate 80 is the good stuff, but Kurust is good for holding the rust a bay for a bit until you cat round to doing it properly.
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I agree about the photos. Easier to Photoshop the photos where needed. The white tape idea is good and will make photo retouching easier. Done a lot of this but mostly with facial blemishes!! Not really something I expected to cover on a car restoration thread. Perhaps Lady GN can start up a make up and beauty thread on the same lines as Chris's restoration threads. There are many similarities!!!
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Last Edit: Apr 16, 2019 8:29:12 GMT by Badwolf
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Ritchie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 765
Club RR Member Number: 12
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Body & Paint ThreadRitchie
@ritchie
Club Retro Rides Member 12
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Apr 16, 2019 11:25:23 GMT
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I would do what you say, dig it out, rust treat, if it's a small hole then plop a blob of fibreglass chopped matting into it, flat back, a smear of filler if you can't get it properly smooth. Then brush it in and t-cut the bejeesus out of it to try and get some sort of finish on it. Or some white tape.
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Apr 18, 2019 11:30:41 GMT
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Well I've done it, slapped a load of kurust in the night before, although the rust extends further than I thought, filled it with wob and painted it, will see it through till August. Hate dodging but it will be done properly by someone with more skills than me soon. After the wedding
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Apr 29, 2019 22:10:07 GMT
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Can cellulose be applied over old sound 2 pack?
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Apr 30, 2019 12:06:52 GMT
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Yes.
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Apr 30, 2019 12:27:31 GMT
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Can cellulose be applied over old sound 2 pack? Yes BUT you are likely to encounter problems with any repair areas - i.e. areas where the 2 pack has been sanded through - this will allow the solvents in the cellulose to creep and possibly react / lift / pickle the edges of the 2 pack - its one of those things that sometimes it will and sometimes it wont - personally I would play safe and apply a isolating primer over the 2 pack prior to applying the cellulose - its a quick, easy & inexpensive process to undertake - then you can apply your new solvent based paint with confidence
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Last Edit: Apr 30, 2019 12:28:08 GMT by Deleted
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Chris - On one of your other threads, you mention using 3 grades of filler. I know that you were trying upol fantastic and regularly use upol dolphin glaze as a final step. What are the current three grades that you are currently using please.
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I guess that even with the correct facilities, air supply & PPE that spraying two pack is a no no for anyone with mild asthma.
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Chris will no doubt be along latter to correct me, but I see no reason why, with a filtered air fed mask/helmet, you shouldn't use 2k. Just make sure that you are out of the danger area before removing you ppe and that the area is clear before you return.
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I guess that even with the correct facilities, air supply & PPE that spraying two pack is a no no for anyone with mild asthma. I don't see why? Not an asthma expert but it's not an irritant to breath 2K fumes, just they are not good for you and you can get sensitive to them either in one go or in tiny doses over time which then gives asthma like symptoms as well as flu like symptoms. It was (still is?) very common in bodyshops for the sprayers to be healthy but the secretaries/receptionists to contract the 2K sensitivity as they used to breath the low level of fumes that escaped the paint booths.
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Chris - On one of your other threads, you mention using 3 grades of filler. I know that you were trying upol fantastic and regularly use upol dolphin glaze as a final step. What are the current three grades that you are currently using please. The other filler I use is a fine finishing filler marketed has 'Cromax 769R' - I much prefer this over any other brand that I have tried - its no good for larger deeper filling areas but its absolutely excellent for fine profile skimming - goes on like margarine and is really nice to sand back - link below but not many places stock it - I obtain mine through LKQ which is the automotive refinishing supplies division of Euro Car Parts www.cromax.com/eu/en_GB/products/product-types/putties/769R.html
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I guess that even with the correct facilities, air supply & PPE that spraying two pack is a no no for anyone with mild asthma. I don't see why? Not an asthma expert but it's not an irritant to breath 2K fumes, just they are not good for you and you can get sensitive to them either in one go or in tiny doses over time which then gives asthma like symptoms as well as flu like symptoms. It was (still is?) very common in bodyshops for the sprayers to be healthy but the secretaries/receptionists to contract the 2K sensitivity as they used to breath the low level of fumes that escaped the paint booths. I have suffered from mild asthma for the last 15 years - (its cause being credited to subjected to industrial use of various products in my earlier years of the bodyshop trade when Health & Safety / Personal Protection Equipment / Method Statements / Risk Assessments had not even been thought about - today its a very different world) I use a whole range of products on a regular basis - the vast majority are 2k based - I take care of my equipment & myself - whilst I don't have a spraybooth facility I do have an effective 'spray room' facility with a good air extraction / intake system - my asthma has not got any worse whilst subjecting myself to the work environment that I have - providing you ensure that your facilities & PPE are adequate it should not be an issue
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Last Edit: May 2, 2019 7:08:03 GMT by Deleted
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I guess that even with the correct facilities, air supply & PPE that spraying two pack is a no no for anyone with mild asthma. I know a good few panel beaters with asthma, never seems to affect them.
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