Mazda RX8's....potential RR status?

[BellyBuilder]

I keep seeing these things around.

When they came out I hated the look. It took me about 10+ years to get over that and now I think they're real RR of the future material.

I've always thought the RX7 is one of the most gorgeous looking cars out there, and obviously can pack a punch if necessary. But being import only and a lot of them being tinkered with has always put me off.

But anyway, back to the RX8.

They have everything in a car that makes it risky to own one:

Non-standard engine - check!
Japanese (parts will be difficult to come by over the years) - check!
Could have been boy-racered - check!
Not all that popular due to the engine - check!
Need regular maintenance/checking (which probably won't have been done) - check!


Yet each time I see one I think they're looking better and better, to the point now where I feel they are pretty much the only modernish car out there sub a few £K that actually looks different from the rest.

I'm thinking it would be worth holding out for the best one out there for the £££ that has been cossetted instead of going cheap and having to source parts every 5 mins.

Has anyone owned one and can comment on the actual real-life scenario of these cars? I've read all the horror stories, but would be grateful to hear the RR thoughts from those in the know.

> Just seen the road tax on these and it's £305pa and rising! No wonder they've hit rock-bottom price-wise :-<

[absolutepony]

I bought one two weeks ago that had had an engine rebuild at one of the top 5 rotary specialists in the country 9000 miles ago, and it developed low compression in the first two weeks of my ownership.

Always go for an R3 over an S1 as they solved a lot of the engine ancillary problems (spec C coils, uprated starter etc..) and they are less prone to rust.

They are so sensitive, not just to maintenance but to preventative parts replacement too. If you buy one there are two routes to go down:

1. Buy one that has been unbelievably looked after - Had a documented rebuild and ALL of the parts replaced that can cause problems. Coils (D585s are the ones to look for), Magnecor leads, plugs, uprated starter (less relevant on the R3 than the S1), new cat / uprated CAT, ESS cleaned / replaced, SSV cleaned / replaced, MAF cleaned / replaced, fuel pump replaced.

2. Buy one with a really tidy body and a knackered engine and then spend £3000 on getting it mint. that way you know that it has definitely been looked after since the rebuild.

Like I said I bought one with a £2000 rebuild 9000 miles ago but it still died. The coils on it were cheap which probably caused the issue, could be a blocked CAT, knackered ESS, fuel pump shot.

If you need any more advice let me know, I have quite a lot of knowledge on the subject (despite my brief ownership). I know all the best RX8 specialists in the country, some of them sell cars that they have literally just rebuilt.

Also if you do get one be sure to put 125ml premix 2 stroke in with every full tank of fuel. Use 10w40 semi synth oil too (not 5w30).

[BellyBuilder]

^ Thanks for your info mate, that certainly gives me more info than I've seen so far.

No previous owner will have done the 2-stroke method you mention. It's only info like this that comes to light X years after they've been released.

However, I've just looked at a 2006 RX8 on Autotrader and the tax is £535pa! Talk about the Govt. trying to kill these things off and with tax like that they will succeed :-<

I wonder if they could be engine swapped for something less high maintenance? Kind of defeats the object I know!

[absolutepony]

Yeah no point with an engine swap in my opinion, the rotary engine should be why you buy an RX8, because you wouldn't buy one for any other reason I can think of.

You can get a pre 2006 model for lower tax instead. I would strongly advise you against buying one that hasn't had a documented rebuild for any more than £500. Either buy a loved one for top whack or an unloved one and restore it to it's former glory.

If you look at any in The Midlands and want me to cast my over it then let me know. If you are serious about a purchase we can have a chat.

Everyone always says that if an RX8 hot starts then it's fine, not true! There are so many things to check, the starter could have been uprated to mask low compression etc etc ...

The RX8 Owners Club is fantastic if you do get one, great bunch of guys!

[BellyBuilder]

Thanks AP. Funnily enough it's the engine that's got me worried, everything else about it I like, but mostly it's for the looks of it. I don't drive fast so going 150mph is not of interest to me.

There's no other car out there like it:

[absolutepony]

Maybe not the car for you then. Once the rotary engine is nice and hot you need to properly drive it to prevent the build up of carbon deposits. These cars don't like to potter about.

[absolutepony]

Just noticed you are in London, lots of good Rotary specialists down that neck of the woods if you have a google.

[BellyBuilder]

Apr 28, 2017 9:18:38 GMT absolutepony said:

Maybe not the car for you then. Once the rotary engine is nice and hot you need to properly drive it to prevent the build up of carbon deposits. These cars don't like to potter about.

That's very interesting to know - at least 50% of current/past owners probably didn't know that hence the problems. Unfortunately most of my driving is 'pottering about'.

Maybe this one will have to just remain a dream like the RX7.

Thanks for the great info you've provided, much appreciated.

[VIP]

Rotaries really don't like being run cold for short bursts either. Once started, they really need to keep running until they get up to temp.

Absolutely no good for popping down the road to the shops.

[absolutepony]

Apr 28, 2017 9:47:15 GMT VIP said:

Rotaries really don't like being run cold for short bursts either. Once started, they really need to keep running until they get up to temp.

Absolutely no good for popping down the road to the shops.

Absolutely! Deflooding is a PITA too.

[luckyseven]

Exactly what's just been said, really. Most of the unreliability horror stories come from people who thought they were just buying a car.. the kind of people who never even check the oil, let alone change it. If you start it, move it out of the garage to get the lawn mower out and then turn it off while it's still cold, it will flood. This will then screw the plugs and the next time it'll not want to start. And so the unreliability myth is born.

Some things do let them down; coil packs and overheated/collapsed cats will both add to the starting woes but are relatively easy and cheap to sort. R3 models sorted most of the issues and had the bonus of fixing the lack of apex seal oiling that broke several engines on earlier models. Basically, rotaries need to inject a small amount of oil into the combustion chamber because there is no other way of lubricating the apex seals (the ones at the tip of each rotor "point"). Because the RX-8 Renesis engine was basically built to bluff emissions tests, Mazda compromised on the oil injection system to try to make the engine burn cleaner. On the R3 they pretty much acknowledged they'd gone too far and introduced a third OMP injector to add much-needed lubrication to the apex seals, and engine reliability increased accordingly.

One of the things that hasn't been mentioned is that they were built by Ford and therefore rust like a Coke can in the sea. Check very carefully underneath, especially the rear diff/suspension frames and round the petrol tank. There are so many out there at such cheap prices due to the perceived unreliability that you don't need to chance a corroded one.


If you want one for pottering then the lower-powered 192hp ones make a btter buy as they make more torque lower down than the 231hp models that want to rev more for power. The factory figures are usually miles short of the actual output anyway. They are a great car, with a superb shell much stronger than the previous RX-7 FDs and with fantastic interior quality for the price. Well worth a punt if you find a good one and are willing to look after it beyond just washing it on a sunny Sunday

[chandlergti]

My neighbor has one with an LSx in it, it goes like stink and is Chevy reliable. I've just started noticing that they are all starting to look a little dilapidated; so I'll probably end up with one soon!

[carmad]

absolutely fantastic cars everything that's been said so far is spot on

i have had a few a would deffo buy more

here are my two 231s








don't be afraid of them here are my kids working on one lol

[Paul]

Apr 28, 2017 8:48:44 GMT absolutepony said:

I bought one two weeks ago that had had an engine rebuild at one of the top 5 rotary specialists in the country 9000 miles ago, and it developed low compression in the first two weeks of my ownership.

Always go for an R3 over an S1 as they solved a lot of the engine ancillary problems (spec C coils, uprated starter etc..) and they are less prone to rust.

They are so sensitive, not just to maintenance but to preventative parts replacement too. If you buy one there are two routes to go down:

1. Buy one that has been unbelievably looked after - Had a documented rebuild and ALL of the parts replaced that can cause problems. Coils (D585s are the ones to look for), Magnecor leads, plugs, uprated starter (less relevant on the R3 than the S1), new cat / uprated CAT, ESS cleaned / replaced, SSV cleaned / replaced, MAF cleaned / replaced, fuel pump replaced.

2. Buy one with a really tidy body and a knackered engine and then spend £3000 on getting it mint. that way you know that it has definitely been looked after since the rebuild.

Like I said I bought one with a £2000 rebuild 9000 miles ago but it still died. The coils on it were cheap which probably caused the issue, could be a blocked CAT, knackered ESS, fuel pump shot.

If you need any more advice let me know, I have quite a lot of knowledge on the subject (despite my brief ownership). I know all the best RX8 specialists in the country, some of them sell cars that they have literally just rebuilt.

Also if you do get one be sure to put 125ml premix 2 stroke in with every full tank of fuel. Use 10w40 semi synth oil too (not 5w30).

I had exactly the same experience...despite a very pricey rebuild, and me picking one that was good money, it developed low compression after a few months. Took a bath on it.

Mine also developed ropey electrics, air bag lights kept coming on, auto headlamp adjusters rusted to hell (don't think they area an issue on the 192), power steering was erratic and heavier on one side than the other, and the heated seats packed up. None of which I could really foresee.

But when it was working properly it was a hoot, made a great noise and great fun to rev to the beep.

[60six]

My only experience of a Rotary was my first ever drunken eBay purchase Y Reg RX7- You know, when you get home from the pub, and just before bed you browse the web .... and the next thing you know is the dreaded 'You Won!' emails.

For £175 with MOT and no rear arches apart from filler - I had an absolute blast for 6 months. All I did was keep the oil topped up and regularly hit the BEEEEEEEEP rev limiter. Amazing motor, which appears to gain front roadholding the faster you go - apparently it's because the engine acts like a gyroscope over 3000 revs.

Loved it - but then it wasn't nearly as complex as the rx8, which I love, but I am totally put off by the amount of people that have had the dreaded rotor tip failure.

[ChasR]

They do have something about them. I really liked then when they came out.

Then I would for some of the time be sat in a 190 on the way to Spa Francorchamps while I partly drove my 205 GTi 1.6. This is the same car I owned with a few mates that Tepper would go on to own. The Mazda had a nicer interior in its own way over the 205. Great qualilty, and superb styling inside! The Rotary details inside are lovely.

The rotary detail we didn't like was the engine. Even then I was pulling away in my lowly 205 from the Mazda and from being in the passenger seat in the RX-8 he did rev it a bit. I say this as I thought my mate wasn't putting his foot down! Even on track it wasn't all that. That experience put me off the RX-8 massively. I thought they would be much faster! My mates and I were debating buying a RWD track car. The RX-8 came up as a contender but the other ex-owner of the 205 vetoed the RX-8 for the reasons that I stated above, more than me which is saying something!

This experience would come to my benefit however. When I sold my 106 GTi the new owner had a 190 RX-8. I made him keep his foot down in the 106. Sure enough he came out saying "that's fast!". It seems that I am not the only one dissapointed by the performance of the 190 RX-8s.

Maybe a 231 would change my mind and I wouldn't mind trying one. Especially now I've gone to a high'ish' revving car with a bit of a torque deficit.

With my experience out of the way it's time to get more objective.

It seems alot of the issues turn out to be down to poor maintenance. Sure, the engines possibly can't do the 200,000 miles that a piston engine can do but they are in some ways cheaper to run (no cambelts etc. etc.) and they are small! It seems however that maintenance is key with these things. Spark plugs take a real hammering in these ; I was shocked at the state of my mate's when he removed them. I believe this car had a full Mazda service history and low mileage etc. when he bought it.



Like anything Japanese these things rust, so check carefully.

My advice would be to go out and try a 231 and see how you get on .

[dudsey]

Save yourself from rotary ownership and enjoy from afar!