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Feb 23, 2018 16:50:37 GMT
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My brother has this 1600cc Mexican (built in 2000) beetle at his garage. It is running standard fuel injection. It runs like a sack of cra*p. It's really rich, black smoking and runs lumpy. The owner has spent lots of money at different garages trying to sort it. A myriad of parts have been changed as no one seems to know what's wrong with it. The owner now wants to dump the injection. Can it be converted to run a standard 1600 carb? Also will the electronic distributor work without the injection? If not, will a normal beetle distributor fit in its place? Thanks in advance  |
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Feb 23, 2018 18:04:14 GMT
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its been done before think you,ll need inlet manifold and carb or, twin manifolds and two carbs. low pressure fuel pump or mechanical pump. I don't know much about the ecu,s on these but assume the distributor is fixed inside and the ecu controls the advance ignition curve so you would need to fit mechanical svda distributor. i don't see why a standard one wouldn't fit. If it was me i think i would just check everything over ditch the vw ecu,s and fit a megasquirt or similar for tunning. but if you do change it all id be interested in the old parts. I probably got the parts to convert kicking about but there all old parts
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Feb 23, 2018 18:25:31 GMT
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Feb 23, 2018 22:14:41 GMT
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Thanks dickie12 . Good info. I don't know the exact history so don't know if someone has plugged into it or just randomly changed parts. I'm sure if this system could be fixed cheaply enough the customer would keep it, but I think they're sick of spending on it. I've passed the info on. Thanks again.
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Feb 23, 2018 22:42:49 GMT
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Consider how to pass the MOT emissions test without the EFI & cat.
It could be a problem.
I'd be starting a thread for advice on fixing it.
Black smoke = very rich. I have no knowledge of Beetle EFI but I'b be considering a failed Lambda sensor (but you would think that would have been on the replaced list) or engine temp sensor.
I know it hasnt got water but the ECU needs to know the temperature, if it thinks its always cold it will probably run open loop and very rich all of the time thinking its not warmed up.
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Consider how to pass the MOT emissions test without the EFI & cat. It could be a problem. I'd be starting a thread for advice on fixing it. Black smoke = very rich. I have no knowledge of Beetle EFI but I'b be considering a failed Lambda sensor (but you would think that would have been on the replaced list) or engine temp sensor. I know it hasnt got water but the ECU needs to know the temperature, if it thinks its always cold it will probably run open loop and very rich all of the time thinking its not warmed up. Mot has been a concern. I'm not sure if he's got a list of what's been changed already. I think the customer doesn't want to spend any more money changing parts so unsure if they'll spend on diagnostic kit. Anyone know anyone in the uk with the diagnostic kit for these engines? |
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I would definitely check the all the sensors first. Iam sure vagcom can be downloaded off the net, someone on here will prob have a good link for it, Heres a vid for a diy cable that you then should be able to plug into a obd to usb cable.
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Last Edit: Feb 24, 2018 10:04:17 GMT by dickie12
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,201
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Feb 25, 2018 22:29:37 GMT
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Just because it is unknown doesn't mean the carb conversion will be much better, albeit it will open up more avenues.
FWIW I bought a Dolly Sprint where the owner threw a fortune at it. Some of the hadn't been done that well or even done at all! The worst part? He gave around £5k in 2 years to various garages. One bill was £2.1k!
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I would definitely check the all the sensors first. Iam sure vagcom can be downloaded off the net, someone on here will prob have a good link for it, Heres a vid for a diy cable that you then should be able to plug into a obd to usb cable. Thanks Dickie. |
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Just because it is unknown doesn't mean the carb conversion will be much better, albeit it will open up more avenues. FWIW I bought a Dolly Sprint where the owner threw a fortune at it. Some of the hadn't been done that well or even done at all! The worst part? He gave around £5k in 2 years to various garages. One bill was £2.1k! It's the customer that wants to convert to carb as that's what the last garage that worked on it recommended she should do. I think it would be better to fix what's there but my brother is a technophobe. |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,201
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Going to Carb may not be a bad idea for him to do himself. Or doesn't he do any work on cars? I'm wincing about taking the M3 in to a specialist ; I really don't trust many garages anymore thanks to experiences like the Dolly Sprint owner and 60six 's. |
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Feb 26, 2018 10:51:45 GMT
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it shouldn't be too hard to diagnose the fault, testing sensors is pretty straightforward though you will need some form of reference figures to work from, getting the part numbers and seeing if they cross reference to another known vehicle will help.
with a little bit of basic knowledge you should be able to get it running right very quickly without having to book lots of time to the customer.
they will thank you in the long run for not fitting a carb!
working in a garage does your brother have access to autodata? I have a copy I can look at later if not, fingers crossed there is something in there about these.
just had a read of that PDF and though the ecu is unique to the ACD engine the rest is very normal VW early 90's stuff.
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Feb 26, 2018 17:59:00 GMT
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I don't mean to sound harsh, but if she took the car to a garage that said change to carb, and your Brother is a technophobe and would do that before solving the problem she is simply getting the wrong people to look at the car.
It needs to be worked on by someone with knowledge and experience of relatively simple early injection systems, they will be competent enough to look at the facts, then carry out testing to find the cause rather than random replacements based on guesswork.
It will be cheaper to pay someone who costs more per hour, but is competent to solve the problem, rather than radically change whats there for no reason other than lack of understanding. The owner also doesnt really need to get a car back that runs OK but may struggle every year at MOT time.
Either that or learn while you fix while getting guidance here and elsewhere, seems like a good idea to me if you have the time.
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,457
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Feb 26, 2018 18:56:24 GMT
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What Chris Y says.
Carb will almost certainly not meet the MOT requirements for a car of that age, as it should have a catalytic convertor which would likely be damaged by the long term running of a carb.
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Carbs and cats don’t mix. Any post-‘93 car needs a cat. It has to be related to the SPI in the early MK3 Golf I reckon (ABD engine)
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Feb 28, 2018 17:38:56 GMT
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I don't mean to sound harsh, but if she took the car to a garage that said change to carb, and your Brother is a technophobe and would do that before solving the problem she is simply getting the wrong people to look at the car. It needs to be worked on by someone with knowledge and experience of relatively simple early injection systems, they will be competent enough to look at the facts, then carry out testing to find the cause rather than random replacements based on guesswork. It will be cheaper to pay someone who costs more per hour, but is competent to solve the problem, rather than radically change whats there for no reason other than lack of understanding. The owner also doesnt really need to get a car back that runs OK but may struggle every year at MOT time. Either that or learn while you fix while getting guidance here and elsewhere, seems like a good idea to me if you have the time. I couldn't agree more but that is what the customer is asking for. He informed her before hand that he didn't know anything about the injection setup. He's currently trying to convince her to fix what she's got. I think she might be worried about throwing even more good money after bad. |
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kabman
Part of things
Posts: 348 
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Feb 28, 2018 21:07:40 GMT
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I think she might be worried about throwing even more good money after bad. That's exactly what's going to happen. She needs to find someone who knows what they're doing. The Mexibug injection is pretty straightforward. There's lots of info here 1600i.de/e_1600i.html or on the Shoptalk forum. I've converted a Beetle from carb to injection. I wouldn't recommend doing it the other way round. |
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Last Edit: Feb 28, 2018 21:09:21 GMT by kabman
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The customer managed to get hold of the right cable to plug into the ecu. My brother took it to my other brother and plugged it into his new all singing and dancing code reader thingy. To faults registered were a temperature sensor and something else that I can't remember now. Cleared the faults and happy days . Works fun. Parts had been replaced but the ecu had not been cleared of the faults.
Now it's a ticking hydraulic tapped to fix. Thanks for everyone's input.
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Great work. Modern units aren't as hard to fix as people think. Only a certain amount of inputs and outputs to make a unit run
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Great work. Modern units aren't as hard to fix as people think. Only a certain amount of inputs and outputs to make a unit run It's still a steep learning curve for my brother. He needs to take his blinkers off accept that electricity exists |
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