Ambulances...

[Del]

Whenever I see news and TV dramas from abroad, they very often (especially back in the 70s and 80s) have car-derived ambulances, like Mercedes:

and Citroen:

and Opel:

and Volvo:


Whereas in the UK, we tend to have van-derived ambulances, like BMC:

and Bedford:

and Ford:


Does anyone know why there's this different philosophy on this side of the Channel?

[Milord]

Isn't that dependent on the purpose of the vehicle?

In Belgium we have van-derived ambulances for "normal" interventions, and car-derived ambulances for "urgent" interventions.
I always assumed it had something to do with speed, since most car-derived ambulances over here are Volvo's with T5 engines or E-class Mercedes in E350 spec.

[darrenh]

its a fair observation though, car based has only become more prevalent in UK in the last 5-10

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2018 9:58:50 GMT darrenh said:

its a fair observation though, car based has only become more prevalent in UK in the last 5-10

Yes - but not particular of the patient carrying type though - they tend to be fast response vehicles to get doctors / medics to the scene or sometimes stand in for the air ambulance in poor visibility / evenings - the survival rate for retro ambulances in general is pretty poor there are a few in preservation but not many.

[grifterkid]

I would love to know more about 'Fast Response' vehicles in the UK as these seem to be a comparatively new thing...

For example, did any Ambulance services use Ford Granada's or Volvo 940's as 'Fast Response' vehicles during the 1980's/90's?!

At my Walton Bridge Breakfast Club car meet a mid-1990's Renault Espace attended that was a London Ambulance 'first responder'...

Is that more of a pan-European thing though...?!

[braaap]

I would say, these car-based ambulances are from a time when traditional coach builders did those as well as hearses.

They were only made for transport, maybe with a doctor sitting within the car, too in case of emergency, but sometimes people only needed to be transported in lying position.

Today all transports, emergency or not, are made in van based ambulances where doctors or medics can stand in, mostly sprinters and the likes.

Whereas hearses are still based on cars, mainly e class benzes, but there is a growing number of vitos, vw busses and the likes.

[ratchart]

Funnily enough I've often wondered the same thing, especially when watching older American films and tv. To my mind proper vans are clearly much a more practical option for ambulances than the converted hearses that seemed to be common over there. 

I think this one is a hearse but the body would be the same as the ambulance version, just with different interior fittings.


Based on a bit of basic image searching this practice seems to have ended sometime in the mid 70s in the US, the latest car based one I can find is a 1977 Caddy. After that they seem to have seen the (flashing) light and switched wholesale to full size vans. 

[braaap]

Must be te lack of big vans before the 80s?

There were vw busses (with rear engines steeling space), transits and a few others, but that van-ambulance thing only started through with bigger vans like sprinters and its predecessors, the ducato family etc.
While the US used pickup truck chassis.

[johnnyizegem]

[simes]

Those Citroen CX’s etc in France were known as SAMU which were equipped with a doctor. Around the same time in the UK we had Ambulance drivers driving the ambulances, literally a driver not trained in any medical way.

[captainmatt]

Usually built by Tissier if I remember rightly? Those who did the mental stretched lowloader Citroens. I do remember seeing one, think it was an early Xantia outside an ambulance station in France.

[sarkie83]

Apparently the US moved away from car based ambulances as manufacturers were downsizing their car platforms at the time, so they no longer had enough space..

[bmcnut]

[kieranv]

Not too sure what the answer to your question is, but here's a picture of my favourite car based ambulance. Mainly because I almost bought one before I got my 960 limo...

[MiataMark]

My wife broke her leg a few weeks ago, kicked in the shin by a horse so not a simple break. After 2 and a half hours a paramedic turned up in a Skoda estate (fast? response). We then waited another half hour for an ambulance that was a non NHS ambulance on contract, the crew weren't medically trained basically glorified van drivers.

Not that impressed with the ambulance service, nothing to do with the staff the paramedic was brilliant but the response was woeful lack of resources I suppose and/or too many calls that don't actually need a 999 response.



Don't know why it's signed up as an ambulance as it can't carry patients.

[SterlingArcher]

Jul 10, 2018 10:53:41 GMT grifterkid said:

I would love to know more about 'Fast Response' vehicles in the UK as these seem to be a comparatively new thing...

For example, did any Ambulance services use Ford Granada's or Volvo 940's as 'Fast Response' vehicles during the 1980's/90's?!

At my Walton Bridge Breakfast Club car meet a mid-1990's Renault Espace attended that was a London Ambulance 'first responder'...

Is that more of a pan-European thing though...?!

I only lived in the UK between 1999 and 2001, but I do not recall anything like that at the time. I do recall seeing paramedics on motorcycles, though.

[Implandy]

As said the coachbuilt market was the start of modern ambulance design , the scoop and run , however as more and more equipment and a move to towards more triage on scene the space requirements grew.

Most ambulances these days are based on a 5 ton chassis , to get the capacity to carry equipment , the RRV are really just to ensure they meet attendance targets. Ambulance design is dependent on a great deal of technical issues , many have air ride, even the van conversions generally done for higher populated areas need to have manufacturer support for braking systems, one of the reasons why Chevrolet never got a firm foothold into the market when they tried in the 1990's.

Master, Ducatos tend to rule the roost for van conversions both in AE and PTS , and a van conversion is considerably cheaper than a box body Merc, although the box body may do a rechassis after 6 years.The difference? well buy 5 chassis /body whereas you may get 7 van conversions.

Paramedics on bikes , really high risk so as the industry is obviously risk adverse they are generally only used where the traffic such as tourist hot spots means an 4 wheel RRV is impractical.

There is even a 'National ' spec to try and control build costs by getting some common grounds, but some areas like the cab isolated, others persisted with the walkthru design.
Today most Trusts have AE ambulances built abroad Germany and Eire the most popular and Poland now making a move into the market at one point the French were successful. In the UK today there are probably now less than a handful of builders, and most of them are for the 'private' services the likes of St Johns, Hatzalah, they also do RRVs mainly based on small MPV types .

All the Trusts are stretched , RRVs fill a need , AE now get frontline service for 5 years and seeing 500000 miles on an AE is not unknown , just think of the stresses that vehicles gone thru in that period

[darrenh]

this is relevant to my interests. radio body land rover forward control 101

[cactus]

That is an Ambulance bodied 101.....
The Radio body is nothing like that!!!

[skinnylew]

RRV's in my experience are a vital part of the process. I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen an RRV get to an incident 15minutes quicker than the equivalent ambulance. Time saved saves lives. They get through the London traffic so much quicker than a 7ft wide 5ton diesel Sprinter!