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When old cars become retrojohnthesparky
@johnthesparky
Club Retro Rides Member 6
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Jul 22, 2018 10:33:25 GMT
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Been having this conversation a bit since we got the corsa. Basically, I picked up a ‘99 corsa b for not much, It’s a low mileage well looked after car that is, I think, on the cusp of becoming ‘retro’ This is it.... It’s unusual because it’s tidy, because I’ve seen a few old corsa b’s about now (baader meinhof phenomenon) and they mostly look like this one I just walked the dog past I know that’s newer, but it is scratched, dented, and looks to be an unloved cheap hack or banger. For a few hundred quid you can buy something like that, and basically drive it until it breaks, then throw it away and start again. If I pick BL as my example, It used to happen with 1100/1300s, allergies, maxis... and these are now sought after classics, Then with metros, maestros etc and these are now retro and now it seems that 200 and 400s have started to cross the line But at some point they stop being few hundred quid hacks and become few thousand retros that people want, I guess the red one will be scrapped by then, but is this just fuelled by how many are left on the road? I think the cooking versions will always jump across, but I guess thy tend to be more cherished anyway, but when we had a escort we always converted the xr3 (or whatever) It’s the base spec ones that are interesting, as the festival of the unexceptional proved, all those cars were cool retros I guess what is it that makes a banger become retro?
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Porsche
West Midlands
Kev from B'ham.
Posts: 4,725
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Jul 22, 2018 10:45:10 GMT
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It's just a simple case of supply & demand.
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Last Edit: Jul 22, 2018 10:45:41 GMT by Porsche
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Jul 22, 2018 10:57:57 GMT
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my take is , something that you look at and think "sh*t , i haven't seen one of those for ages!!" , or "where did they all go?!" or even "thats cute , even though i used to hate them" (as in the case of your corsa...its a beauty , great buy!). don't think you can go too far wrong at 20 years old either to keep it simple.
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating '80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip '97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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Jul 22, 2018 12:36:43 GMT
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It’s subjective and anyone can have a difference of opinion.
I don’t see the Corsa B pictured as retro in the slightest, but an early Corsa B GSi or even very very basic poverty spec early Corsa B I think is retro.
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Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern
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Jul 22, 2018 12:37:02 GMT
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If it's French it's when it's there are 7 left on the road!
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Jul 22, 2018 12:53:18 GMT
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In the blue one, its the smaller headlights that make me think 'ah yes, not seen one of those in a while' But the red one, with the larger headlights, TBH I don't think id even notice it. Similar thing with micras, early ones with the small headlights. I want one because it makes me think retro, i get ideas along the same lines of what id like to do to a classic mini Then theres the facelift. I had one for about 5 years and just never felt the need to do anything to it, apart from a pre-facelift front end conversion. Which never happened. If it makes you think retro, then it probably is, but just because its retro doesnt mean its a classic, and just because its classic doesnt mean I want to open that can of worms again.
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Jul 22, 2018 16:14:18 GMT
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Is it just an old car? Or is it a "proper" retro? Or maybe it's a "classic"?? The million dollar question,isn't it? I myself have no kids,but my sister's kids (Victor,16 and Corneel,13)accompany me a lot to shows,meets,swapmeets,the racetrack (my hometrack Zolder!!)...and they are my means of knowing if something is "retro or not". They too can go lyric about basemodel-once they were everywhere-cars. They too,like BMC-NUT see a first incarnation of a model and think it's cool and retro,like the early Micra K11's or Corsa's,and with every facelift it gets less retro. Even though it's always cars that they never saw when they first came on the market. But i guess a car-obsessed uncle helps a bit. I want to add to this something that i don't often hear or read about when the subject of retro comes up: the driver aids-comfort level of a car. I notice that when they come along with me in one of my cars (not the Corvette,with that i can only take one of the two!)they always point out the thin rimmed steering wheels,the lack of radio-cd-mp3 whatever,the non-power steering,the manual window winders,non electric seats,no airco,no central locking...and then i'm not even mentioning abs brakes,lane-changing assist,self parking...(my sister and brother in law have modern Vw's and Bmw's). Maybe the level of sofistication combined with the pureness (of line)of a first iteration of a model is what makes it retro. But hey,what do i know. Here's a picture of a 1993 Micra i owned,a 1300cc lx,one they thought was proper retro! I had a 1994 Corsa B too a few years ago,a true povert-spec one,steelies with small centre caps,white non metallic paint,black plastic bumpers,nothing electric,no radio...sadly no pictures of that one.
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retrolegends
Club Retro Rides Member
Winging it.....Since 1971.
Posts: 3,719
Club RR Member Number: 94
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When old cars become retroretrolegends
@retrolegends
Club Retro Rides Member 94
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Jul 22, 2018 16:20:22 GMT
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1974 Hillman Avenger 1500DL1992 Volvo 240SE1975 Datsun Cherry 100a flying custard1965 Hillman SuperMinx Rock N Roller1974 Austin Allegrat Mk1 1.3SDL1980 Austin Allegro Mk3 1.3L1982 Austin Allegro Mk3 on banded steels2003 Saab 9-3 Convertible 220bhp TurboNutter1966 Morris Minor 1000 (Doris) 2019 Abarth 595C Turismo (not retro but awesome fun) www.facebook.com/DatsunCherry100a
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Jul 22, 2018 16:31:57 GMT
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I actually meant: "the LACK of sophistication combined with the pureness of a first model...".
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Jul 22, 2018 16:41:13 GMT
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I actually meant: "the LACK of sophistication combined with the pureness of a first model...". the old "mk1 syndrome"... mk1 escort , mk1 golf , mk1 fiesta , classic 2 door range rover , first gen celica etc etc etc.... all the best of their type!
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating '80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip '97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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Jul 22, 2018 16:58:26 GMT
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If it's French it's when it's there are 7 left on the road! So when they get to two years old then?
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Jul 22, 2018 17:00:20 GMT
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These are great cars but worth absolutely nothing and give it a few years will be a distant memory, I've been trying to sell mine but there is no interest in them at all so I reckon I'm going to park it up and wait until it's the last one left. 😆😆😆 How much is absolutely nothing? I’ve got a Saab Convertible itch that needs scratching but as soon as I start the scratch I notice all the prices seem to have shot right up from when I didn’t have the money...
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Jul 22, 2018 17:02:40 GMT
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The pureness of the first model is usualy the designers original intention for the look of the car, whereas the facelift models are done to fall in line with the rest of the current range 5 or more years down the line. For example.. Austin Maxi, 1969. The original intention was to have a 'V' in the grill, as found on mini clubmans of the same time, but it was later decided to make the front end flat. We once had a 1969 demo car tthat had extensions on the inner wings because the very first bodyshells were intended to have the 'V' front. Slightly odd looking, so they settle on a flat front The best looking Maxi imo, and still a BMC design. it was then updated to fall inline with the rest of the British leyland range. Still looked good. Then in 79/80 it was updated once again. Nothing about these late cars appeals to me, inside or out. Ive no doubt everyone sees a Maxi as retro now, but my point is to show how much a car can change in looks and spec, throughout its production, and that can affect how you perceive them.
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Ryannn
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,421
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Jul 22, 2018 17:15:00 GMT
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They usually change over in the time between me selling them... and wanting to buy another...
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Brian Damaged
West Midlands
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 9,553
Club RR Member Number: 33
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Jul 22, 2018 18:27:27 GMT
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Myself and v8devon were ruminating on this very subject at Classics & Coffee in Redditch this morning.
A point amply demonstrated by the sight of, amidst the M-Power BMWs, Lamborghinis, modified Minis, Skylines, the two of us poring over a scruffy but solid '94 Mondeo V6 with a dinged wheelarch and a cracked back bumper. 😁
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When old cars become retrojohnthesparky
@johnthesparky
Club Retro Rides Member 6
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Jul 22, 2018 18:38:32 GMT
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The pureness of the first model is usualy the designers original intention for the look of the car, whereas the facelift models are done to fall in line with the rest of the current range 5 or more years down the line. For example.. Austin Maxi, 1969. The original intention was to have a 'V' in the grill, as found on mini clubmans of the same time, but it was later decided to make the front end flat. We once had a 1969 demo car tthat had extensions on the inner wings because the very first bodyshells were intended to have the 'V' front. Slightly odd looking, so they settle on a flat front The best looking Maxi imo, and still a BMC design. it was then updated to fall inline with the rest of the British leyland range. Still looked good. Then in 79/80 it was updated once again. Nothing about these late cars appeals to me, inside or out. Ive no doubt everyone sees a Maxi as retro now, but my point is to show how much a car can change in looks and spec, throughout its production, and that can affect how you perceive them. Was thinking along those lines with my van, I drive a Volkswagen T6, it’s 2 years old.... but the difference between mine (or even a brand new one) and a 2003 one is basically just headlights, bonnet and mirrors.... so I can’t imagine a T5 being retro.... but I guess in a while it might, except they are galvanised and there are loads of them and they’ll be around until the diesel runs out (let’s save that for another thread ) so they’ll probably not be so few of them left that they’ll be desirable (except by people who want campers) By that is what happened with the maxi above...
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When old cars become retrojohnthesparky
@johnthesparky
Club Retro Rides Member 6
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Jul 22, 2018 18:45:04 GMT
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It’s subjective and anyone can have a difference of opinion. I don’t see the Corsa B pictured as retro in the slightest, but an early Corsa B GSi or even very very basic poverty spec early Corsa B I think is retro. I suspect you are right, I didn’t buy the corsa thinking that’s retro. I did like it because it’s quite old, and I think if anything the corsa is ‘interesting’ because it is still tidy (it also trades off of the earlier models to an extent, so is associated with 1993 even though it’s 1999) But as you say if it was a GSi it probably would be.... A mate was buying a mk1 escort a year or two back and had all sort of stress over the provenance of then and were they genuine or a normal model with the vin of a rotten Mexico etc So that maybe implies that Retro will go the same way as Classic?
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When old cars become retrojohnthesparky
@johnthesparky
Club Retro Rides Member 6
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Jul 22, 2018 18:53:47 GMT
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Myself and v8devon were ruminating on this very subject at Classics & Coffee in Redditch this morning. A point amply demonstrated by the sight of, amidst the M-Power BMWs, Lamborghinis, modified Minis, Skylines, the two of us poring over a scruffy but solid '94 Mondeo V6 with a dinged wheelarch and a cracked back bumper. 😁 That seems to be the effect of the corsa, a catalyst for this sort of conversation. I don’t think I’m ahead of the curve or anything, but it does seem to start car people ruminating
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Jul 22, 2018 20:38:56 GMT
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the two of us poring over a scruffy but solid '94 Mondeo V6 with a dinged wheelarch and a cracked back bumper. 😁 didnt they all come from the factory with flapping bumpers???
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating '80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip '97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:50:38 GMT
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I'm really hankering for a 200 or 400, especially fitted with the 180 bhp turbo engine. Prices absolutely cant get cheaper. They are on the cusp of retro and pretty good cars.
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