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I need to make an adapter plate to marry an engine from another car to my gearbox. No off-the-shelf adaptor plates exist so I'm having to make my own, but I need to accurately measure the gearbox bolt pattern. The bellhousing is integral, so I can't unbolt it and send it somewhere with a CMM... so does anyone have any ideas on how to measure it accurately? I have borrowed a spare gearbox, so it's quite accessible. The engine side I'm sorted on as I have an adaptor plate which fits the engine at least, but I'll need to drill the holes for the gearbox to get it to work.
Alternatively if anyone does have a CAD file for a Nissan / Datsun L-series bolt pattern that would be an absolute godsend. I've scoured the internet to no avail.
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vanpeebles
Part of things
I am eastbound in pursuit of a white Lamborghini, this is not a recording.
Posts: 978
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Big bit of cardboard and prod holes
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braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,597
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Cartboard plus paint applied to the gearbox, press them together like a stamp on a document, to get a template.
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I don't think cardboard is going to be accurate enough. The alignment needs to be pretty precise, if the input shaft is slightly out of centre the gearbox will die pretty quickly.
I've seen people on the internet using a sheet of clear polycarb with a hole in the centre for the input shaft but I have no idea if after they made their adapter the gearbox was junk after a few hundred miles or what.
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braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,597
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I doubt they made a polycarb adapter, but a polycarb template to make a steel adapter.
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Which engine/gearbox combo do you want to use?
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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I doubt they made a polycarb adapter, but a polycarb template to make a steel adapter. Yeah that's what I meant. The transparent polycarb was used to make the template. I'm not sre how accurate the template would be even then... I guess it depends on the person making it! There'd be some play in the input shaft I'd assume, so how they ensure the shaft is centred I don't know. Which engine/gearbox combo do you want to use? Mercedes OM606 to Nissan L-series gearbox.
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Last Edit: Jul 5, 2019 11:26:22 GMT by BenzBoy
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It shouldn't really matter if there is much play in the input shaft on the gearbox. If you use a piece of poly, then mark all the bolt holes on it, then drill them and and use actual bolts to secure the template to the gearbox bellhousing then this would 'fix' the hole locations in relation to each other and not in relation to the input shaft. The actual adapter plate will be independent of the input shaft anyway in terms of fixing, so it doesn't matter how much play you'll have in in the input, it will always be there.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,840
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Make sure the spigot/bearing is gonna fit properly then sit the engine on its nose and bolt the adaptor plate on with countersunk bolts. Sit the gearbag on top and align it then make a transfer punch to mark out the bolt pattern of the gearbox onto the adapter plate. You'll have to take the dowels out so it'll sit flat but can't think of a easier way of doing it by measuring.
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dikkehemaworst
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,581
Club RR Member Number: 16
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But if you have a spare gearbox, isn,t there a way of scanning it? Technique is so far these days, there must be a solution. Maybe ( a bit primitive) on a big xerox machine? I made my adaptorplate on a zerox machine, from paper to wood and from wood to the cnc shop, but it was a small car. Maybe a person like @johnnybravo would know how to scan....
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Find an engineering firm with a Faro arm and they'll be able to map it straight into CAD.
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But if you have a spare gearbox, isn,t there a way of scanning it? Technique is so far these days, there must be a solution. Maybe ( a bit primitive) on a big xerox machine? I made my adaptorplate on a zerox machine, from paper to wood and from wood to the cnc shop, but it was a small car. Maybe a person like @johnnybravo would know how to scan.... I have the use of a Faro arm,but am a long way away....
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Last Edit: Jul 5, 2019 17:17:29 GMT by Deleted
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I doubt they made a polycarb adapter, but a polycarb template to make a steel adapter. Yeah that's what I meant. The transparent polycarb was used to make the template. I'm not sre how accurate the template would be even then... I guess it depends on the person making it! There'd be some play in the input shaft I'd assume, so how they ensure the shaft is centred I don't know. Which engine/gearbox combo do you want to use? Mercedes OM606 to Nissan L-series gearbox. Luke at DPUK sells an adapter kit which you might be able to use, assuming it is meant to work with the RB/RD engines which share a bell housing pattern with the L series. it looks expensive but isnt when you factor in the other work it saves. www.dieselpumpuk.com/shop/transmissions/adaptor-kit-nissan-patrol-2-8-3-0-4-2/
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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dikkehemaworst
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,581
Club RR Member Number: 16
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Thats a nice piece of kit! And with a free tshirt!!
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Yeah that's what I meant. The transparent polycarb was used to make the template. I'm not sre how accurate the template would be even then... I guess it depends on the person making it! There'd be some play in the input shaft I'd assume, so how they ensure the shaft is centred I don't know. Mercedes OM606 to Nissan L-series gearbox. Luke at DPUK sells an adapter kit which you might be able to use, assuming it is meant to work with the RB/RD engines which share a bell housing pattern with the L series. it looks expensive but isnt when you factor in the other work it saves. www.dieselpumpuk.com/shop/transmissions/adaptor-kit-nissan-patrol-2-8-3-0-4-2/I had thought about the DPUK kit, but I was a bit hesitant as the L-series and RB bellhousings are slightly different - according to what I've found, there are two bolt holes in the wrong place which need elongating, and the L-series sits at an angle whereas the RB is upright (or the other way around... I don't recall). I figured that it was a lot of money to spend on something that isn't quite right, and I'd be putting my faith in info collected from various parts of the internet about the bolt pattern similarities. I get what you're saying about potentially saving time though!
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I had thought about the DPUK kit, but I was a bit hesitant as the L-series and RB bellhousings are slightly different - according to what I've found, there are two bolt holes in the wrong place which need elongating, and the L-series sits at an angle whereas the RB is upright (or the other way around... I don't recall). I figured that it was a lot of money to spend on something that isn't quite right, and I'd be putting my faith in info collected from various parts of the internet about the bolt pattern similarities. I get what you're saying about potentially saving time though! I thought it was the A series that was a few degrees slanted but I could be wrong. Luke is a nice guy, I'm sure if you told him what you're trying to do he'd let you take your gearbox over for a trial fit. Alternatively, could you use a Merc gearbox instead?
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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These are the 2 bolts and a dowel that are different between L series and RD, the rest bolt up.
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Make sure the spigot/bearing is gonna fit properly then sit the engine on its nose and bolt the adaptor plate on with countersunk bolts. Sit the gearbag on top and align it then make a transfer punch to mark out the bolt pattern of the gearbox onto the adapter plate. You'll have to take the dowels out so it'll sit flat but can't think of a easier way of doing it by measuring. ^This Done a few like that now, including the OM606 except I used it to jig up a cut'n'shut bellhousing to mount my OM606 to a Land Rover transmission
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It shouldn't really matter if there is much play in the input shaft on the gearbox. If you use a piece of poly, then mark all the bolt holes on it, then drill them and and use actual bolts to secure the template to the gearbox bellhousing then this would 'fix' the hole locations in relation to each other and not in relation to the input shaft. The actual adapter plate will be independent of the input shaft anyway in terms of fixing, so it doesn't matter how much play you'll have in in the input, it will always be there. I see what you mean about templating the bolt pattern not being affected by input shaft movement, but how do I ensure that once I transfer the bolt pattern to the adapter, the centre of the input shaft aligns exactly with the centre of the crank? As I understand it, runout tolerance is fairly critical. Finding the input shaft centre, with the shaft in the centre of its side-to-side play seems quite difficult. Unless I'm missing something (which is perfectly possible!) Make sure the spigot/bearing is gonna fit properly then sit the engine on its nose and bolt the adaptor plate on with countersunk bolts. Sit the gearbag on top and align it then make a transfer punch to mark out the bolt pattern of the gearbox onto the adapter plate. You'll have to take the dowels out so it'll sit flat but can't think of a easier way of doing it by measuring. That seems like it would work. The only obstacle I have is that the borrowed gearbox isn't from my vehicle, it just has the same bellhousing pattern, so I'd need to yank my 'box, find the right spigot bearing and go from there. With the input shaft in the spigot bearing, how do I know that there is no sideways load on the input shaft by having the gearbox slightly misaligned and taking up the play in the shaft? Or am I worrying too much about that? Am I imagining there to be more play than there actually will be in a healthy, fairly low mileage gearbox? I had thought about the DPUK kit, but I was a bit hesitant as the L-series and RB bellhousings are slightly different - according to what I've found, there are two bolt holes in the wrong place which need elongating, and the L-series sits at an angle whereas the RB is upright (or the other way around... I don't recall). I figured that it was a lot of money to spend on something that isn't quite right, and I'd be putting my faith in info collected from various parts of the internet about the bolt pattern similarities. I get what you're saying about potentially saving time though! I thought it was the A series that was a few degrees slanted but I could be wrong. Luke is a nice guy, I'm sure if you told him what you're trying to do he'd let you take your gearbox over for a trial fit. Alternatively, could you use a Merc gearbox instead? I did consider Merc boxes, such as a Sprinter one, but I want to keep my 4x4 system and the transfer box is integral. Plus even if I wanted to make my life easier and go 2wd, the axles are offset so that option is out, sadly!
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Last Edit: Jul 5, 2019 21:12:07 GMT by BenzBoy
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sonus
Europe
Posts: 1,386
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I used 6mm aluminium sheet and a router with carbid bit to make a bespoke engine backplate. I would have drilled a center hole for the gearbox input shaft in a 1/4” sheet of aluminium and then used center hole punches to align the bolt holes for the bellhousing. Then I’d turn a small length of rod the same diameter as the input shaft to fit into the spigot bearing on the crankshaft to move the now drilled template over to the engine. Hope that made sense ?
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Current 1968 TVR VIXEN S1 V8 Prototype 2004 TVR T350C 2017 BMW 340i
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