Extending phone line and router question

[Deleted]

Please delete if not appropriate.

Apologies as this is a bit tenuous but without my internet I cannot check RetroRides, so here goes.

I need to temporarily move my master phone socket about 60meters away to give me telephone and internet.  I have searched a lot but am getting very confused with all the terminology/technology.

My plan was to remove my master phone socket and connect 60meters of phone line or CAT6 to the 2 required wires (just twist together and heatshrink) and re-connect the old master socket to the other end of the 60 meters of phone cable.  Will this work? as most forums ive searched on are sounding very complicated. 

If this wont work, what will?

Thanks

[carat 3.6]

If it's only temporary surely you wont need to move the master socket, just plug an extension into it?

[Deleted]

Oct 28, 2019 12:22:13 GMT carat 3.6 said:

If it's only temporary surely you wont need to move the master socket, just plug an extension into it?

Possibly?  I suppose I was thinking the router had to be on the master socket as opposed to an extension?

Just to add, in my head its a very simple case of extending the wires - but ive been baffled and blinded by technology when searching for the answer.

[colnerov]

Hi, When you consider that the phone line has probably come miles from the exchange before it gets to the house, I don't think another 60m is going to make much difference.

Colin

[jamesd1972]

Go extension - the whole router thing into the master is for ISP companies to not have to work round dodgy home wires. Background is that BT have to give you a good master socket and the internet providers can pass the buck back to them to fix this.
Otherwise as you say just extend the wires -think there is only 2 wires used in a master socket anyway so easy enough to connect up. Technically you are not allowed to mess with your master BT socket anyway, but what they don't know etc.
James

[gtviva]

60mtrs wont be a problem, it just needs a pair of twisted cores, the master socket has a couple of extra components and from memory one is a capacitor to make the phone ring and the other is a test resistor so they can check the line from the exchange
Normally the master socket has a split face which when you take it off it has connections for any extension wiring, this enables the engineer to remove the split face disconnecting the extensions and the they can test the line, any extension wiring is normally the customers problem if there are faults

If you run an extension from the master you actually need 3 cores, the extra wire is need to make the bells ring on the extensions

[sausage]

I bought a 15m extension to connect my router to the master socket and it sucked the data rate right down due to signal loses, gave that idea right up and ended up just repositioning the router the other side of the wall from the master socket instead (with short cables thru the wall).

Powerline adapters work great at getting internet to garages / sheds/ distant parts of the house etc. so router on the master socket, cat 6 into powerline adapter, internet comes out the other end on paired powerline adapters, then you can have either direct connection or wireless by using a router bridge (ddwrt etc).

if there is no mains link then a long run of cat 6 instead from your router to a router bridge or access point. Also you arent supposed to move / mess with master socket and BT will take a dim view of you doing so.

[Deleted]

Thanks all for replying. Thankfully you all spoke in a language that I can understand - (I do need to go and google powerline adaptors though). Il order some cat6 and see how I get on.

[Phil H]

Phone extension cables are rarely twisted pair(s) which is why you’re on a hiding to nothing with your router being on the end of one.

Powerline adaptors are generally fine - but some equipment can be a bit fussy with them. I had a set delivered with a BT Vision box yet Sky frown on them. I’ve known many people who have used them with success when getting an internet connection to a shed/garage at the bottom of a garden with a 40-50m run.

[Rebuilda]

Phone extensions can be IDC connected straight into the back of the removable panel on modern 2 part master sockets, you don't need a 'plug in'. This means you can order proper telecoms twisted pair from a company like CPC.

Internal BT approved cable

External telecoms cable (non approved AFAIK)

There is a massive difference in price and it would be cheaper to run the internal cable through a rigid garden hose if it's going outside. 

You will need to use the inserts numbered 2 and 5 for the actual phone and 3 for the 'bell wire'. Make sure to use the same colour wires on the slave socket.

Thats where my 13 years as a BT engineer runs out as I retired in 2000 before the advent of ADSL etc. I am fairly sure you can use a standard ADSL filter on a slave box, our domestic router is plugged into a slave although the cable run is less than 5 metres.

Beware the plastic IDC tools, they can get snagged and leave a little bit of plastic in the groove which will cause the physical connection to be below par.

[Deleted]

Oct 28, 2019 20:26:28 GMT Rebuilda said:

Phone extensions can be IDC connected straight into the back of the removable panel on modern 2 part master sockets, you don't need a 'plug in'. This means you can order proper telecoms twisted pair from a company like CPC.

Internal BT approved cable

External telecoms cable (non approved AFAIK)

There is a massive difference in price and it would be cheaper to run the internal cable through a rigid garden hose if it's going outside. 

You will need to use the inserts numbered 2 and 5 for the actual phone and 3 for the 'bell wire'. Make sure to use the same colour wires on the slave socket.

Thats where my 13 years as a BT engineer runs out as I retired in 2000 before the advent of ADSL etc. I am fairly sure you can use a standard ADSL filter on a slave box, our domestic router is plugged into a slave although the cable run is less than 5 metres.

Beware the plastic IDC tools, they can get snagged and leave a little bit of plastic in the groove which will cause the physical connection to be below par.

Thanks for that Rebuilda  -  So just to check I'm understanding the rest correctly.

The master socket is a 5C so yes I believe I can IDC connect  (havnt looked properly yet as furniture is in the way)

Leave master socket where it is and IDC connect proper twisted pair cable from master and run to a slave socket 60m away, then router and phone will plug into slave socket with an adsl filter? 

Thanks for the tips on the tools.

edit..and yes it will need to run outdoors so good tip on using garden hose.

[Rebuilda]

All the BT local cables are twisted pair and can run up to 5 miles as overhead or underground although ADSL speed will suffer over such a long distance.
Trunk cables (between exchanges) have been replaced to the best of my knowledge with fibre so distance is no longer an issue.

5C socket is the split box system designed so the BT engineer can disconnect all 'local' extensions to test for faults.
To this day the worst of the faults on the national phone network are caused by water ingress (sounds like eggs frying) or muppet contractors with shovels or diggers... NOT by people adding phones and extensions. Back in the days when phones needed 75Vac to make the bell ring there was a limit to how many phones you could have on a domestic line. Now we're all digitised and cordless the current requirements are a lot lower.

The twisted pair can be colour coded two ways. Either blue with a white tracer twisted to white with a blue tracer (blue can be substituted for other colours but i'll come back to that) or just a blue and a white twisted together. All BT approved cable should use the bi-colour wires.
Colours should run in the following sequence if possible.
Blue / white
Orange / white
Green / white
Brown / white
Grey (or slate as we knew it) / white
Use the 'colour' on 2, its pair on 5 and any other wire (normally the orange) for 3. Use same wires on t'other end.

This is the right tool for terminating wires in a 5C or any other BT box LINK

I thought all this had been erased from my memory until I started writing it

Make sure the box on the far end is a slave box (no capacitor). LINK  and don't forget a matching pattress box if surface mounting.

You may suffer a little speed loss on the ADSL side but it shouldn't be too noticeable.

[Rebuilda]

Don't know if this will be any use or not but...
Put a small bead or other round object on the wire before you put it into the garden hose. It doesn't have to be a snug fit, loose is better. If the cable doesn't want to run poke an airline blow gun into the hose and give it a squirt of air. Good for scaring anyone looking down the hose pipe too. 

[Deleted]

Thanks for the detailed replies Rebuilda that's all very useful. Also I was wondering how to get cable through the hose, now I know!

[Rebuilda]

If the hose is laid out straight the cable should pass along it without needing any help. You'll have to be careful as you unroll the cable and straighten it as much as possible as it enters the hose. Once inside the hose there shouldn't be enough room for it to kink enough to get stuck. That internal cable is 5-6mm diameter and soft wall to allow for bends inside properties.

[jamesd1972]

Seek and ye shall find !
Fantastic reply from Rebuilda really useful info.
James

[Deleted]

Couldn't agree more jamesd1972
Thanks again Rebuilda
And thanks to everyone else who chipped in.

[sausage]

If going powerline route BT mini connector kits can be had off ebay for about £25 a pair and work a treat, I have full speed internet in my garage that is about 25m from the router and wireless in the drive using a ddwrt router bridge.

[Rebuilda]

Cheers fellas. Made a nice change to actually be useful