|
|
Jan 15, 2021 14:39:47 GMT
|
|
|
Last Edit: Jan 15, 2021 15:00:14 GMT by cortinaman
Old Fords never die they just go sideways
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 15, 2021 14:44:22 GMT
|
Good, I haven't seen one with a decent beam pattern yet. I did try some in my old transit and it was hideous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 15, 2021 17:09:02 GMT
|
Hi, Good, they are aligning the legalities with the physics of it. I've lost count of the times I've had discussions with people who don't understand the physics, or care about anyone coming the other way.
Colin
|
|
|
|
mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,953
Club RR Member Number: 77
|
|
Jan 15, 2021 20:51:24 GMT
|
Oh great, now my mega expensive headlight bulbs that passed last year and have a perfectly fine pattern are now a fail Back to conventional bulbs for me then
|
|
|
|
adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 58
|
|
Jan 15, 2021 21:38:33 GMT
|
Interesting, so even if you'd put HID or LED bulbs into a projector type headlight that was originally halogen, it would be a fail even though the beam pattern could be fine?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 15, 2021 22:20:25 GMT
|
Interesting, so even if you'd put HID or LED bulbs into a projector type headlight that was originally halogen, it would be a fail even though the beam pattern could be fine? Can’t imagine they would see it in a projector type light
|
|
|
|
mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,953
Club RR Member Number: 77
|
|
Jan 15, 2021 23:06:27 GMT
|
Interesting, so even if you'd put HID or LED bulbs into a projector type headlight that was originally halogen, it would be a fail even though the beam pattern could be fine? Can’t imagine they would see it in a projector type light Light output and with HID doing their funky stuff on start up are the giveaways. And if in doubt, we have to check the headlight unit for the relevant markings for it being HID compliant. Even if they are projector units with perfect pattern, if they don't tally up its a fail
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Can’t imagine they would see it in a projector type light Light output and with HID doing their funky stuff on start up are the giveaways. And if in doubt, we have to check the headlight unit for the relevant markings for it being HID compliant. Even if they are projector units with perfect pattern, if they don't tally up its a fail [br I’m assuming from the ‘we have to’ comment you’re a tester. So you’d be checking a light ‘doing it’s funky stuff on start up’ then ?
|
|
Last Edit: Jan 16, 2021 9:00:21 GMT by rattlecan
|
|
mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,953
Club RR Member Number: 77
|
|
|
Light output and with HID doing their funky stuff on start up are the giveaways. And if in doubt, we have to check the headlight unit for the relevant markings for it being HID compliant. Even if they are projector units with perfect pattern, if they don't tally up its a fail [br I’m assuming from the ‘we have to’ comment you’re a tester. So you’d be checking a light ‘doing it’s funky stuff on start up’ then ? You assume correctly We had a Fiesta mk5 in the other week. That had some shonky LED H4 replacements and very poor pattern. So I can understand the reasons behind it from the DVSA. But not all LED replacements are equal
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 16, 2021 10:03:18 GMT
|
I think its a good change. Bad headlights are a hazard, I've been dazzled by loads of people with ridiculously bright headlights on cars that are clearly too old to have been built with them, and a terrible beam pattern.
Maybe some work OK, but all of the ones that don't and cause danger spoil it for anyone modifying safely.
|
|
|
|
|
mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,953
Club RR Member Number: 77
|
|
Jan 16, 2021 10:09:02 GMT
|
I think its a good change. Bad headlights are a hazard, I've been dazzled by loads of people with ridiculously bright headlights on cars that are clearly too old to have been built with them, and a terrible beam pattern. Maybe some work OK, but all of the ones that don't and cause danger spoil it for anyone modifying safely. I agreed with all the above here. One of the reasons I was dubious about upgrading to the LED units in mine was light scatter. But the headlight beam setting equipment showed good pattern with no stray light, and I've not been flashed by anyone oncoming on the road So while I agree with the reasons behind it all, surely if the beam pattern is acceptable on the DVSA approved equipment, there's not much of a problem The amount of new cars with LED headlights that ARE NOT adjusted properly is a bigger issue IMO. And they are on the road for 3 years with the owners oblivious
|
|
|
|
wu11ie
Part of things
Posts: 117
|
|
Jan 16, 2021 11:18:13 GMT
|
[br I’m assuming from the ‘we have to’ comment you’re a tester. So you’d be checking a light ‘doing it’s funky stuff on start up’ then ? You assume correctly We had a Fiesta mk5 in the other week. That had some shonky LED H4 replacements and very poor pattern. So I can understand the reasons behind it from the DVSA. But not all LED replacements are equal So how would you be able to tell, I thought MOT testers weren't allowed to remove anything during the inspection, does that include opening the bonnet? and if you could see the bulbs, seen it do the funky startup but had a proper beam pattern would it still be a fail? Surely it should be based on the beam pattern not blinding other road users and not just because of the bulb? I'm not being a d!ck, those are genuine questions lol
|
|
|
|
Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,248
Club RR Member Number: 160
|
|
Jan 16, 2021 11:25:40 GMT
|
You assume correctly We had a Fiesta mk5 in the other week. That had some shonky LED H4 replacements and very poor pattern. So I can understand the reasons behind it from the DVSA. But not all LED replacements are equal So how would you be able to tell, I thought MOT testers weren't allowed to remove anything during the inspection, does that include opening the bonnet? and if you could see the bulbs, seen it do the funky startup but had a proper beam pattern would it still be a fail? Surely it should be based on the beam pattern not blinding other road users and not just because of the bulb? I'm not being a d!ck, those are genuine questions lol LED and HID have a very different colour range from filament bulbs so it’s pretty much immediately obvious for 90% or so of the ones on the market, being that most people want to fit LED and HID tech to be ‘brighter’, mistaking blue for bright. Granted there are plenty of filament colour LED systems available for ‘old’ cars that are going to be harder to detect but the bottom line is if you give discrepancies for ‘it’s ok on the beam setter’ you potentially give rise to ‘well that one was ok while mine isn’t’ and at the end of the day, it’s easier to just turn round and blanket ban the wrong bulbs in the wrong reflector type. I, as others have said, could get into the physics of it, and yes, not all conversion kits are equal and some do give good beam pattern but it’s just easier not to
|
|
|
|
ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
|
|
Jan 16, 2021 11:39:30 GMT
|
As I understand it, this is just a rewrite to make life simpler for testers. Nothing is new from a legal perspective.
"Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp."
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to drill a hole in the back of my old sealed beam lamps so I can stick an LED in there and still be able to pass my next MOT.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 16, 2021 11:47:37 GMT
|
I have not personally experienced ‘older stuff’ with blinding headlamps ever as far as I remember. Brand new cars however, are ridiculous & they are the ones that need addressing. Best bit is, the manufacturer’s even know this as they dim the light when the indicator is on, basically admitting that the light is too bright
|
|
|
|
wu11ie
Part of things
Posts: 117
|
|
Jan 16, 2021 12:54:36 GMT
|
So how would you be able to tell, I thought MOT testers weren't allowed to remove anything during the inspection, does that include opening the bonnet? and if you could see the bulbs, seen it do the funky startup but had a proper beam pattern would it still be a fail? Surely it should be based on the beam pattern not blinding other road users and not just because of the bulb? I'm not being a d!ck, those are genuine questions lol LED and HID have a very different colour range from filament bulbs so it’s pretty much immediately obvious for 90% or so of the ones on the market, being that most people want to fit LED and HID tech to be ‘brighter’, mistaking blue for bright. Granted there are plenty of filament colour LED systems available for ‘old’ cars that are going to be harder to detect but the bottom line is if you give discrepancies for ‘it’s ok on the beam setter’ you potentially give rise to ‘well that one was ok while mine isn’t’ and at the end of the day, it’s easier to just turn round and blanket ban the wrong bulbs in the wrong reflector type. I, as others have said, could get into the physics of it, and yes, not all conversion kits are equal and some do give good beam pattern but it’s just easier not to That's my point, if the light is bright enough, it won't upset oncoming traffic and the beam spread is OK then what difference does the type of bulb make? Its like rubbish tyres, people take cars for MOT's with rubbish Chinese brand tyres you know would be lethal in the wet (and dry sometimes) but testers pass them because they're "legal"
|
|
|
|
Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,248
Club RR Member Number: 160
|
|
Jan 16, 2021 13:36:00 GMT
|
LED and HID have a very different colour range from filament bulbs so it’s pretty much immediately obvious for 90% or so of the ones on the market, being that most people want to fit LED and HID tech to be ‘brighter’, mistaking blue for bright. Granted there are plenty of filament colour LED systems available for ‘old’ cars that are going to be harder to detect but the bottom line is if you give discrepancies for ‘it’s ok on the beam setter’ you potentially give rise to ‘well that one was ok while mine isn’t’ and at the end of the day, it’s easier to just turn round and blanket ban the wrong bulbs in the wrong reflector type. I, as others have said, could get into the physics of it, and yes, not all conversion kits are equal and some do give good beam pattern but it’s just easier not to That's my point, if the light is bright enough, it won't upset oncoming traffic and the beam spread is OK then what difference does the type of bulb make? Its like rubbish tyres, people take cars for MOT's with rubbish Chinese brand tyres you know would be lethal in the wet (and dry sometimes) but testers pass them because they're "legal" It's just the way it is. It's easier to fail them, because 1 in 10 that has a decent pattern isn't worth making an exception for in the the eyes of the DVSA, which isn't necessarily my view as well, it just is how it is. Also Chinese tyres sold in the UK are really not as deadly as you'd like to make out. The majority of peoples cars have the likes of 3 triangle and landsail tyres and people don't just fall off the road when it rains. BUT, this debate isn't about that.
|
|
Last Edit: Jan 16, 2021 13:36:22 GMT by Rich
|
|
cjj
Part of things
Posts: 275
|
|
Jan 16, 2021 13:40:38 GMT
|
Let's be honest - it's designed to stop a problem, but it'll still exist.
There'll be the same people who "know a guy" or will switch them around pre and post MOT pass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 16, 2021 13:48:48 GMT
|
Let's be honest - it's designed to stop a problem, but it'll still exist. There'll be the same people who "know a guy" or will switch them around pre and post MOT pass. That’s the way, you just need a tester who’s not a jobs worth & all is well in the world
|
|
|
|
fraudownersclub
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,006
Club RR Member Number: 23
|
|
Jan 16, 2021 13:51:35 GMT
|
Don’t forget all hid lights need to be fitted with head lamp washer So it’s easier to tell if they are not factory fitted 😉
|
|
#fraudownersclub #richartsltd
|
|
|