ford type 9 to crossflow.....?

[yoeddynz]

Anyone here know about this subject?

I have bought a capri 2.8 i type 9 and it wont fit. Input shaft too long and the bell housing has a different pattern!
What I want to know is.... will the bellhousing from a sierra bolt onto the capri type 9 box.

I know i'll need to space it out because the longer shaft. and i'll need 1.6 sierra clutch disc.

The capri box has better ratios- longer 1st 2nd and 3rd so i'd like to use!
Or find a cheap sierra one and swap cogs over...

Has anyone got a sierra box kicking about close to oxford?

alex

[B-8-D]

ive got a type 9 in bits at my unit..
stripped for a project but not using now..
its not strictley mine but i don't think hed want much for it.. just beer money..
another option is to use a std 4pot type 9 bellhousing and space it out like u say or fit a bellhousing from a p100 as these have the long input shaft and the longer bellhousing to match will bolt strait on then..
si

[Deleted]

you will find a crossflow will struggle with the 2.8 box as they are not great with a five speed anyway best bet would be to find a 1.6 five speed box

[slater]

Its easy dude.

You can use a standard sierra pinto or CVH bell housing (but they are damn heavy). A lighter alternitive is an alloy rs2000 bell housing which you can get new from rally design for just over 100 notes (cheaper than 2nd hand would you belive!)

As for the input shaft you have to cut the end off! get a grinder with a cutting disc and get someone to spin the shaft as you cut! simple

You cant swap cogs between the sierra and capri boxes as 1st gear is connected to the input shaft and they are differant ratios! all you will end up with is exactly the same thing as you started with!!

The ratios in the capri box are alot beter than the seirra box so make sure you use that! I had a serria box on my 1300x-flow and it was lovely as a everyday car but it still would have benifited from the taller 1st and closer ratios as 1st is way to short for a light wieght car like an escort or such.

Not sure what mr nightmares means about a 1600 five speed?

[Deleted]

slater said:

Not sure what mr nightmares means about a 1600 five speed?

well that would be a 5 speed type 9 from a 1.6 engined car ie 1.6 laser or 1.6 sierra dosen't take much working out really

[slater]

what ratios do they have? i thought they had the same as a 2L would have?

[PhoenixC]

It will probably make a difference depending on axle ratios as well.
The five speed in my escort is from a pinto (not sure if its a 1.6 or a 2.0) but I have a V6 atlas axle with a 3.75:1 CWP and have always found first a bit too long. Cant remember of the top of my head if there was a different ratio type 9 for 1.6 and 2.0 but I know there was for the 4 speeders. Problem is now you can never be sure what box you are going to get unless you know its been in that donor car all its life. The last 2.0 pinto and five speed I picked up was mate to a 1.6 flywheel and clutch, it didnt last very long .

If you are going to fit a P100 bell housing or space the shaft on a V6 box then it might make fitting a bit more awkward and you might get more clearance issues in the transmission tunnel. If its going in something that should already take a ford engine and box then the output shaft is going to be an inch or two further back and you would need to shorten the prop.

Obviously if its going into a car that never had a ford engine and box then you can forget that last paragraph.

[Deleted]

shorter 5th gear on early boxes fitted to 1.6's. crossflows are not particularly torquey engines and do tend to suffer in top with the longer 5th gear i.ve fitted both types to crossflows both were not great with a five speed but the shorter geared one was much better.
i have a list of all the gear ratio's for ford type 9 5speed and 3 rail 4speed boxes about somewhere if i can find em i'll post em up

[slater]

Yeh that would be useful.

I know what you mean about 5th being a bit tall for a x-flow but i kind of like my cars like that for economy and motoway purposes. The problem i have with them is the first 3 gears arnt as good as a 4speed box!

[avtovaz]

I am not sure which is which, but some ford boxes have different amount of splines on the clutches aswell, so check that out first too!

And as PhoenixC says, the props are different lengths!

[gitfarm]

p100 boxs give a really close gearing (tip-don't put one on the back of a v8 with a 1600 capri axle!!!!!!!!!!!!! not funny!!) , dunno how similar to the 1600 tho. would make more use of the xflow...

[Team Blitz]

My experience has been same as Nightie's, use the small motor box for the crossflow.

By the way, I need some V6 bells for the T9, if anyone has one or more, PM me. Yeah, I know the clutch window will be wrong-sided for a UK bell. That's OK, RH or LH window, I'll sort them.

[scaryoldcortina]

I too am in need of a v6 type 9... 4 potters I have dozens of!

[Team Blitz]

scaryoldcortina said:

I too am in need of a v6 type 9... 4 potters I have dozens of!

Hey! Go scrounge on another thread, hahahahaha. I'm scrounging here! ;D

[scaryoldcortina]

I'm closer, lol

[yoeddynz]

Wow- loads of replys!!!!! wicked-thats what we want- good honest advice! I tried logging on to oldskoolford but didnt like my non ipc or whatever address.

OK- from what I've found out ealier the 1.6 and 2.0 boxes are the same ratios - but obviously not.... maybe only 5th is different..silly if it is as they are usually only .8 : 1 thereabouts anyway and meant to be long to crusie in.
I'm putting it in my HB viva and its got to be cheap to run or else I would have plonked in my spare mazda 12A....

I think theres a fair bit of room around the tunnel but going for a 4 pot box would save a lot of hassle....

Say I do end up fitting a 4pot bell housing (which i've heard don't bolt on to a capri box- something about the layshaft sticking out in front) and chop down the spiggot bit of the input...what about the splines? wont they be too far fowards too?

alex

[Deleted]

4 pot bell housing will fit no probs done it many times both ways round 4 pot on v6 and 6 pot box on a 4 all you will need to do is cut about an inch off the end of the in put shaft thats all thats different between the 2 input shafts on the outside of the box

[gitfarm]

blew the p100 box in my old capri, and needed a longer shaft type 9 for it to work on the back of the rover, so got a v6 box to replace it. both have the longer shafts but the splines were in different places, but it still worked on the same clutch arrangement so I guess theres not much in it, nothing that cant be solved with a bit of friction plate/pressure plate choices i'd imagine..??

[steelydan]

the 2.8i box is close ratio (same ratios as the RS 1800 gearbox but with a 5th overdrive) it works very well behind an xflow.. or at least it does with mine ;D (ps mine is a tuned 1300 xflow, with a 4.4 or 3.89 diff depending on where I'm driving) with the 4.4 diff its perfect around town, pulls hard in every gear, 3.89 is still ok, ideal for motorways as long as you keep it in the power band it'll pull up every hill (2.8i box ratios 3.36 - 1.81 - 1.26 - 1.1 - 0.825)

2.8 and 1.6/2.0 boxes are different in more ways than just ratios. the 2.8 box has slightly heavier duty barings, so is supposed to take slightly more bhp/torque that said there isnt much in it... the other thing is the input shaft is longer. 30mm or there abouts, this is both the spigot locator bit and also some splined section. it isnt possible to swap a regular type 9 input shaft in due to a different amount of teeth on the gearbox end.

the 2.8 bellhousing is obviously for a v6 but any pinto housing will bolt on, either the dirty cheap cast iron one or an alloy one.

big issue with the input shaft being wrong has 2 options
1) it has been said that you can 'modify' it with an angle grinder but youd have to do a very neat job of the splines or getting it to locate inthe clutch would be tricky... I had my input shaft machined when it the gearbox was rebuilt as it wasnt expensive and seemed a good option at the time which is working well.
2) you put a spacer between the gearbox and bellhousing, I have seen these avaliable from caterfield type places, but the problem is they move the gearstick back another 30mm which in an Escort means you need to move the handbrake, not sure about any other car.

if OSF isnt helping much try turbosport.co.uk got a good tech section your bound to find answers

forgot to say, you can get an adaptor clutchplate, usually 30quid, from speedshack, burton power or GS Escorts. or ebay

[yoeddynz]

cheers fella!
Well when I bought my 2.8 box it came with a box load of bits and peices- new main front and rear bearings and various other internal gubbins...
If I can get hold of a bellhousing then i'll take the box apart- fit the new bearings etc and while the bits are out 'borrow' my mates lathe and spin the 1st motion shaft down. I was a fitter turner back in NZ so as long as i can find the on button away i go.

Is the diameter of the spigot section larger than on a crossflow box? I imagine it is...and if so then either I spose make a bush or I imagine theres anafter market one out there already?.

Is the output shaft the same size/dia on all type 9's?

cheers
alex