stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,836
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Jan 31, 2022 22:54:11 GMT
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Now I'm back in a petrol car for a bit (only a 03 Clio so not retro) I've been keeping a eye on what mpg I'm getting on various fuels and it's thrown up some interesting (with regards fuels anyway, dull as ditch water in reality) results.
When I was using the car last summer it was averaging 34mpg. Using any brand of E10 still results in a average of 34mpg. I then decided to go to super unleaded which is where the (not very) interesting bit happened.
I did a fill of Shell Optimax from a station next to work, and mpg shot upto 39mpg average and the car was noticeably quicker on my measured test track (106mph instead of 100mph speedo). I then did a fill with Tesco Momentum and mpg went back to 34 and back to 100mph on test track. Next I tried Optimax again but from another station nearer home, and mpg l stayed at 34. I've then done another fill of Optimax at the station next to work and back to 39mpg, and another Momentum from a different Tesco and back to 34.
Do you reckon they could be trying to pass off the old E5 95 RON as premium fuel hence the lack of change? I dunno if its something that can be proven, but at £1.55-1.63p/l if that is the case it'd be illegal if they are I imagine.
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All the pumps I've seen (doesn't affect me, I'm the antichrist running a diesel) have said 'up to' whatever percentage of Ethanol So theoretically they can dump anything into an E10 dispenser, because it's all up to 10% Or is that just me being cynical?
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 1,983
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So theoretically they can dump anything into an E10 dispenser, because it's all up to 10% If they sell E5 as E10 they're doing their customers a favour surely?
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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So theoretically they can dump anything into an E10 dispenser, because it's all up to 10% If they sell E5 as E10 they're doing their customers a favour surely? Depends on your point of view 🤔 Edit - I'd better clarify that Those that see E10 as the solution to global warming will be screaming they've been sold a dud. Those that don't want E10 as it'll ruin their fuel system would be glad. But as pointed out above, prove it?
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 1,983
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Some people apparently think E5 is a better fuel, and E10 is cheaper?
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,836
Club RR Member Number: 174
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It's not the E10/E5 bit I'm concerned about - performance and mpg has been the same on 95RON E10 as 95RON E5. However if I'm paying for 98RON high octane fuel it seems like there should be a noticeable gain in mpg, which I'm not getting at some stations.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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I put optimax in the panda cos I couldn’t be arsed to wait for a povvo pump and the difference then was noticeable, much more than I expected. . I kept using premium for a while at different stations but didnt notice any difference in performance so went back to normal after that.
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joda
Part of things
Posts: 672
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It may work out that you get better MPG on Premium price E5 , but you will probably still get more miles per pound (£) if you run the cheeper E10 - and for that reason, i will stick to the cheep stuff !
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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How are you measuring MPG?
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Shell, like all the other fuel companies, chucks a cocktail of additives to make its fuel "better" than its competitors. What they think is "better" is their guess but sounds like it works well in your Clio.
Tedious fuel trivia: Shell tried selling a "Green" cleaning premium fuel years ago but found hippies didn't want to pay for premiun fuel so the marketing department had a re-think and that fuel is now sold as V-Power. The "performance" is achieved by your engine not getting clogged with coke. The fuel is 98RON petrol + cleaning additives.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,836
Club RR Member Number: 174
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How are you measuring MPG? Miles to a full tank (I do ~500 miles a week so a lot of full tanks worth)
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,872
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Shell, like all the other fuel companies, chucks a cocktail of additives to make its fuel "better" than its competitors. What they think is "better" is their guess but sounds like it works well in your Clio. This I would suggest is a bigger factor than the RON value. After all RON is only the resistance to knock, so if your Clio doesn't knock on 95 then there should be no gain in performance/economy whether you run 95, 98 or even 110 Av gas. I appreciate it can be a different story on a modern turbo car where the ECU can monitor the knock levels and add more ignition advance under boost when a higher octane fuel is used, but I presume that's not the case for the Clio! The cocktail of additives that us put into 'super' unleaded is more likely to be making a difference, and is morel likely to vary from brand to brand. As far as I know, the additive mix also changes from season to season, so summer fuel may give different performance to winter fuel. It could be as simple as the Shell garage having a more recent tank full of the latest season fuel in than Tesco? They may well be selling off the old 95RON E5 fuel as super unleaded 98RON, all they'd need to do is mix some more additives in to bring it up to 98RON. But at that point it would be no different to any other 98RON super, they all start off as the same base 'petrol' from the refinery before the additives are mixed in and it becomes either cheap and cheerful 95RON with 10% ethanol or 110 Av Gas with a whole bunch of Tetra-ethyl lead in it!
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Last Edit: Feb 1, 2022 13:30:17 GMT by goldnrust
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Roach
Part of things
Posts: 717
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My car says I’m averaging 9mpg currently… all I’m measuring is the smiles.
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Not really had a comparison on the Dolomega's fuelling as it ran in the garage (before E10 was the norm) well on old style E5. It seems to pull even better on stupidly expensive 99RON Esso and the consumption figures are about what I predicted during the build.
HOWEVER SWMBO's 06 Picasso 2.0 16v auto REALLY doesn't like E10, which it's been on exclusively since the fuel "crisis" for cost and availability reasons. Performance is down on the old E5 and average economy is down by 3-4mpg under all driving conditions according to the trip computer. I tend to have the trip running on long journeys on instant MPG readout (gives me something to look at/amuse myself with)and the cruise control engaged as much as possible and it's noticeably lower at any given point on a 130 mile journey I do often. Particularly on uphill sections of the M5. Also i've not reset the trip computer since buying the car in 2012 but 4 months of E10 has already had an impact on my long term average figure of just over 1 mpg and still falling. For most of my ownership the average mpg displayed has been 31.7 mpg +or- 0.1. It's currently 30.6. Since that's 4 months out of 10 years and 30,000 miles YOU do the math!
Steve
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A mate has the all singing and dancing WRX STI prodrive scooby, which he's had for years. Not only is it suceptable to the octane, it's choosy about brands too, which must be something to do with the cocktail on additives. Its favourite flavour is the shell stuff
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It's not the additives, they are detergents, oxidation inhibitors and the like. Some of the Super Unleaded brands are free of alcohol and higher in density so should deliver slightly better miles per gallon. Some achieve the higher octane from alcohol so won't. Some have higher MON as well as RON and as goldnrust says if you have an appropriate vehicle you will get a further improvement in mpg. Pointless aside: years ago when I made the stuff I challenged my marketing colleague to share the data on Super sales. Less than 10% was needed by the vehicle. c. 40% was 'to give it a treat' or because 'It's a high-performance car init' and c. 50% was because the punter picked up the wrong nozzle. This was in the early 2000s and may no longer be true. As far as I am aware the only car homologated on 98RON Super was the TVR with their own engine. I don't know about motorcycles.
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Last Edit: Feb 1, 2022 15:42:21 GMT by theoldman
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One thing I have noticed about E10 is my 94 Astra uses more of it, but last year before it was the norm it took a few goes and getting it quite hot to meet emissions. I sent it in this year to the same garage having done no other work to it on E10 and it sailed through. I don't use it enough to worry about the loss of MPG tbh, just glad it runs on it ok.
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A mate has the all singing and dancing WRX STI prodrive scooby, which he's had for years. Not only is it suceptable to the octane, it's choosy about brands too, which must be something to do with the cocktail on additives. Its favourite flavour is the shell stuff My Subaru Forester XTEN is similarly fussy and has a distinct preference for Tesco Momentum 99 mind you it still struggles to beat 20mpg except on long journeys.
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The Doctor
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,434
Club RR Member Number: 48
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I sent it in this year to the same garage having done no other work to it on E10 and it sailed through. I don't use it enough to worry about the loss of MPG tbh, just glad it runs on it ok. That's one of the tricks I used when E85 was available on pumps in the Netherlands. When my car failed on emissions, I would fill the tank with a mix of E85 and normal unleaded. Sailed through the emissions test afterwards.
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I sent it in this year to the same garage having done no other work to it on E10 and it sailed through. I don't use it enough to worry about the loss of MPG tbh, just glad it runs on it ok. That's one of the tricks I used when E85 was available on pumps in the Netherlands. When my car failed on emissions, I would fill the tank with a mix of E85 and normal unleaded. Sailed through the emissions test afterwards.
I run on E85 here in France mixed 50/50 with E10, the emissions are at near zero on the test like you say. The car loves it (mondeo 2.5T) and goes like a rocket plus its 70 cents a liter. Drops the consumption from 29 mph to 23 mph ( LTFT goes out to +12) but the cost and performace increase are worth it. I have remapped my Fiat Coupe 20VT to run on it 100%, huge increases in ignition advance on full boost - I think its the mondeo ECU advancing the timing that has improved the performance. Great fuel.
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