Manufacturers against Right to repair cars

[60six]

www.vice.com/en/article/g5q5zq/car-companies-argue-that-right-to-repair-law-is-unconstitutional

It's all because they don't want you to have 'their' data. Conveniently forgetting who owns it...

[Soopahfly]

I love how they said that giving access to car data will give access to sexual predators.
Why is the car generating that kind of info?
Monitor everything else then. Car manufacturers don't need telemetry to see where a car has been, where it's kept etc.
That's none of their business.

[VIP]

Meh, it's a USA issue, won't affect the majority of us.

[biturbo228]

While it is an issue primarily in the US, it is a worrying trend that I wouldn't be surprised if manufacturers try to implement elsewhere.

I wonder if, during the purchase of a car (either new or second hand), you ever end up agreeing to share that data with car manufacturers. If not, there's a chance it could breach GDPR in the EU and its satellite states (including us).

[comfortablynumb]

I thought there was legislation going through with regards to 'right to repair'
Or does that not apply to vehicles?

[60six]

Every built in camera, your car radio, the ecu, the parking sensors, GPS data, weight, what doors have been opened/closed are just a snippet of the data that these modern cars record and keep. Just to keep you safe, and sell on regardless to analytics companies.

[Soopahfly]

Feb 10, 2022 13:55:16 GMT 60six said:

Every built in camera, your car radio, the ecu, the parking sensors, GPS data, weight, what doors have been opened/closed are just a snippet of the data that these modern cars record and keep. Just to keep you safe, and sell on regardless to analytics companies.

And soon insurance companies will want some of that analytical cash when there's mandatory vehicle tracking.

[misteralz]

Feb 10, 2022 13:28:50 GMT biturbo228 said:

While it is an issue primarily in the US, it is a worrying trend that I wouldn't be surprised if manufacturers try to implement elsewhere.

I wonder if, during the purchase of a car (either new or second hand), you ever end up agreeing to share that data with car manufacturers. If not, there's a chance it could breach GDPR in the EU and its satellite states (including us).

Buying a Tesla requires you to sign an EULA. Sod that.

[Soopahfly]

Feb 10, 2022 14:32:35 GMT misteralz said:

Feb 10, 2022 13:28:50 GMT biturbo228 said:

While it is an issue primarily in the US, it is a worrying trend that I wouldn't be surprised if manufacturers try to implement elsewhere.

I wonder if, during the purchase of a car (either new or second hand), you ever end up agreeing to share that data with car manufacturers. If not, there's a chance it could breach GDPR in the EU and its satellite states (including us).

Buying a Tesla requires you to sign an EULA. Sod that.

But second hand users don't, so how does that work?

[kevins]

Block exemption regulations in Europe (and the UK) mean manufacturers have to make this data available at a reasonable cost most usually charge a daily, monthly or annual fee.

Some of the modern ones a scary, we have been told that any Tesla taken anywhere sensitive must have the cameras taped over because Tesla monitor them even when the vehicle is turned off!.

They get around GDPR in EU by anonymising the data, means you should never get any comeback but the data is still sold for trends etc.

[rattlecan]

All I can say is welcome to retro rides & f*** em 😀

[killerkerry89]

This article is just a vague mash of words which make no sense! What telemetric data are they referring To? Why do consumers want this useless information? How can it possibly have any influence on the repairability of a vehicle?

The telemetric data generated by the wheel speed sensors, pitch/roll/yaw sensors, accelerometers and steering angle sensor etc used by the ESP in your average modern car isn't stored on the body control modules or any other part of the CANbus network and I'm not aware of any vehicles that relay this information back to the manufacturer.
And even if they could, this information is largely useless if you're repairing a collision damaged car and wholly irrelevant when carrying out maintenance.

If anyone can clarify, I'd sure like to know...

[Dez]

Feb 11, 2022 21:50:06 GMT killerkerry89 said:

This article is just a vague mash of words which make no sense! What telemetric data are they referring To? Why do consumers want this useless information? How can it possibly have any influence on the repairability of a vehicle?

The telemetric data generated by the wheel speed sensors, pitch/roll/yaw sensors, accelerometers and steering angle sensor etc used by the ESP in your average modern car isn't stored on the body control modules or any other part of the CANbus network and I'm not aware of any vehicles that relay this information back to the manufacturer.
And even if they could, this information is largely useless if you're repairing a collision damaged car and wholly irrelevant when carrying out maintenance.

If anyone can clarify, I'd sure like to know...

Don’t count on it.
I was speaking to my neighbour last week whos bought a Tesla model S.
when they service it they download the lot to check how you’ve been driving. If you use ludicrous mode too often it invalidates your warranty!

[wildrover]

As I understand the issue from reading elsewhere (I stand to be corrected) consumers do not want all of the data collected by the vehicle/manufacturers. They are only asking for access to the necessary data to diagnose and repair the car

The manufacturers are saying that there is no way to separate the necessary data from the unnecessary; accordingly, depending on what state you live in they are shutting down the vehicle's ability to perform a lot of these tasks so that they don't run afoul of the state's right to repair laws. In other words the manufactures are collecting data that may be seen as sensitive and then using that as a reason not to provide access to data essential to the diagnosis and repair of the car.

This may be an oversimplification or I may have misread/misunderstood some things along the way.

*disclaimer - I didn't actually read the article linked by the OP

[killerkerry89]

Having re-read the article the second paragraph states that this so indy repair shops can conduct safe repairs?

"The specific issue is whether car owners and independent repair shops should have access to the telemetric data generated by their cars. As cars become increasingly complex and computerized, the data they generate is key to conducting safe repairs. Access to that data has been withheld by automakers to keep people from repairing their own cars"

The only thing I can see this being relevant to is the advent of ADAS, for which you need specialist hardware and software to check and calibrate as each manufacturer has different systems and combinations of systems depending on model and spec. Thus putting it outside the capability of all home mechanics!

[comfortablynumb]

Wasn't there a case recently where a land rover was actually used as evidence to convict a crossbow attack, where the car details were downloaded to prove the vehicle was in the area at the time to the attack?