Any Volvo Amazon estates out there?

[gn3dr]

Been lusting over Amazon estates ever since the PPC cover car a few months back. Are there many of these out there for sale or are they a bit rare (i.e expensive)?

Anyone have any ideas of prices for solid "project" type condition ones.

[tonycocacola]

paul H is the man you need for amazon wagon info, but i think hes out of the country atm.
I'm sure mishab18a, loon or archieboy could help with info too.

[dugong]

Estates eh? They're not rare or anything, plenty knocking about.

For a scruffy MOT'd car you'd be hovering around the £750 - 800 mark as they're very useable cars, what with the massive load space and flat boot floor what what.

As with any classic car, go for the best you can afford bodily, you can get the running gear pretty cheap unless you start getting into J type Laycock overdrives and Dana Spicer LSDs.

Make sure whatever you buy has decent inner wings and a serviceable bulkhead, as these are the most expensive jobs to do on an Amazon.

Avoid the the B18A engined cars if you can, there's nothing wrong with them as such except they're strangled by a single 36mm Zenith carb that struggles to cart the weight of the saloon around, let alone the heavier estate shell. They sound like they're having fun trying though, and with a bit of work they can rev to 7000 rpm, thanks to a five bearing crank and a set of steel timing gears.

Spec wise a 222S would be right on the money. That way you're getting a B18B with the pair of SU HS6s which are a lot pokier than the A, which has low comp pistons and a very mild cam. You also get better crankcase ventilation thanks to a vented oil cap, another problem that's addressed after my car was built. Make sure the engine has been upgraded to neoprene crank oil seals front and back, as if it's on the original felt then it will be a job you'll end up doing sooner or later as if the back one lets go (and it will, being felt) it's bye bye clutch. Daddy or chips.
There's loads of engine \ suspension tuning bits available, there's even specific SDP \ TDP exhaust systems available from www.amazoncars.co.uk.

The B series lumps also have a lot of scope for tuning, everything from fast road to full race cams being available, with all of the associated OHV gubbins with it. Best one is the K cam, fitted in the fuel injected B20s. There's also tubular exhaust manifolds, head options, overbored pistons and even turbo options are possible.

Try and get a car with an alternator, or at least one that's been retro fitted. DC generators are not fun. At the very least get a generator car with the screw ribs to take an alternator on the N \ S side of the front timing cover.

Engine swaps for the later engines that ended up in the last 120s and the 140 are also often done, as the torque difference from the 1986cc engine over the 1778 cc jobbie is massive. Best late engine to go for is the B20E with the big valve fuel injected head, B20F headgasket and SU carbs. The 222 models also benefitted from solenoid jobbed Laycock de Normanville overdrives, first in D Type (good for 100 bhp) and later J type (100 bhp and way over). Converting a non O \ D car to O \ D isn't hard, but certain bits for the electrics and the shorter propshafts are getting expensive.

Estates sometimes were specced with 4.5 inch steels as opposed to the standard 4" wheels.Tyre wise I'd suggest either a set of NOS Gislaveds or Michelin XZXs. If you want to go off on one wheel wise the Amazons to '68 have a 4.5" PCD which is the same as most American stuff (Ford \ Mopar) with a +25 mm offset. 17" wheels up to 7" wide will go on no problem - look at Bryn's friend's estate that runs ARE type 2s.

The estate has specific overriders that are slightly harder to find than saloon ones. Most people leave them off. The estate specific doors at the rear are harder to locate than others, and the window channels rot out and are a pain to replace because of the omega clips securing them in.

There will be some other estate specific things you should watch for, but I'm knackered and I'm sure PaulH and loon know more about them than me anyways ;D

[Paul H]

Hi & welcome!!!

tonycocacola said:

paul H is the man you need for amazon wagon info, but I think hes out of the country atm.
I'm sure mishab18a, loon or archieboy could help with info too.

You called? ;D Loon also knows the estates well as iirc, he has 3!!!!

In addition to mischab18a's excellent advice, here are a few comments of my own (& also a few minor clarifications to avoid any confusion):

mischab18a said:

Make sure whatever you buy has decent inner wings and a serviceable bulkhead, as these are the most expensive jobs to do on an Amazon.

Inner wings can be repaired (a good section is available for the tops, where they rot most). However the bulkhead is reputedly a female dog to fix if icky. See links further down the post for the rot spots....

Front wings are disgustingly expensive new from Volvo (something like £350 - £400+VAT each), but vgc 2nd hand can be found for much less.

mischab18a said:

with a bit of work they can rev to 7000 rpm, thanks to a five bearing crank and a set of steel timing gears.

Just to clarify - steel timing gears are an upgrade - as standard, they have fibre tipped gears which are quieter, but don't last anything like as long.

mischab18a said:

The B series lumps also have a lot of scope for tuning, everything from fast road to full race cams being available, with all of the associated OHV gubbins with it. Best one is the K cam, fitted in the fuel injected B20s. There's also tubular exhaust manifolds, head options, overbored pistons and even turbo options are possible.

Best exhaust is a twin downpipe coupled to a Simons sports system. Details of the different cam profiles here:

www.volvoforums.org.uk/showpost.php?p=116478&postcount=8

mischab18a said:

Converting a non O \ D car to O \ D isn't hard, but certain bits for the electrics and the shorter propshafts are getting expensive.

O/ds are VERY desirable!! A normal M40 (plain old 4 speed) gearbox cannotr be converted as amongst other things, the output shaft is different. You'd need a complete o/d 'box (M41) for the conversion, and they are becoming scarce, especially for sensible money.

mischab18a said:

Estates sometimes were specced with 4.5 inch steels as opposed to the standard 4" wheels.Tyre wise I'd suggest either a set of NOS Gislaveds or Michelin XZXs. If you want to go off on one wheel wise the Amazons to '68 have a 4.5" PCD which is the same as most American stuff (Ford \ Mopar) with a +25 mm offset.

IIRC, all estates have 4.5" wide wheels, as do P1800s and 123GTs. the rest have 4" wide rims. ALL Amazons have 5x114.3 (4.5") pcd irrelevant of the engine. Rear disc brake P1800s (with fuel injected B20s) had the later 5x108pcd, as do all 140 / 160 series etc.

Some other useful links to posts on estate buying data that I've posted previously on the Volvo OC forum (also highly recommeded for Amazon advice):

www.volvoforums.org.uk/showpost.php?p=289117&postcount=24
www.volvoforums.org.uk/showpost.php?p=538&postcount=2

See also this thread by someone elese on the VOC forum, for additional info / pics of rotspots etc, and as an example of where even a decent looking car can be hiding a few surprises. Also shows the rot issues with the screen surround very well too.

Hope all this helps, and please don't hesitiate to ask for any more info etc

[Oldbus]

Long shot but you never know.....

My boss has been after an Amazon estate for years, don´t suppose anyone knows of a really good one (lhd) being sold?

Cheers,

Dave

[gn3dr]

Wow
Lots of good info there folks.
Sad to see the blue estate in one link getting crushed though - it wasn't that bad was it.
Keep me in mind if you come across any estates. I'm not afraid of a bit of welding - in fact I would like to do a full resto / mod on any car I ghet anyway so would expect to do some.


I think I might see a 2 door in my future as well some time.......

[Paul H]

oldbus64 said:

Long shot but you never know.....

My boss has been after an Amazon estate for years, don´t suppose anyone knows of a really good one (lhd) being sold?

Cheers,

Dave

Have you tried looking in Holland? They are extremely popular there, to the extent that back in the mid '90s, a concours estate was sold for about £18K!!!!! However a nice one should be far more sensible money. Otherwise, an ex-California import would be a good bet. Although the trim etc could be knackered, that is all available (although sometimes at a price...) but the bodyshell should be rustfree which imho is more important

gn3dr said:

Wow
Lots of good info there folks.
Sad to see the blue estate in one link getting crushed though - it wasn't that bad was it.
Keep me in mind if you come across any estates. I'm not afraid of a bit of welding - in fact I would like to do a full resto / mod on any car I ghet anyway so would expect to do some.


I think I might see a 2 door in my future as well some time.......

If it was the one in my link, unfortunately it had few if any redeeming features, and was worth no more than the £70 that I paid for it in it's intact state. Besides being an accident write-off, it had been badly bodged up in the past and had extensive rust holes in complex double skinned areas of the roof (all along the gutters - I could put my fingers all the way though in several places!!!) and also the front bulkhead. Both of these areas are 'walkaway' points imho unless the car is otherwise in very good condition. It had also been sat in a field for several years, then moved with a forklift and the interior was also very rough. The only part that I didn't keep but wish I had was the back axle.

There's usually a few estates on eBay, but even based just on the pics, most don't look that great to be honest. What needs to be remembered is that most Amazon estates have seen a lot of hard use due to their ability as an extremely capable workhorse. However as you can weld, then there are bargains out there, especially if you can make good repair panels etc too, as sadly the estates aren't as well catered for panel-wise as the saloons.

[Oldbus]

Thanks Paul, i´ll keep my eyes out over on the other side of the border

[devilishdesigner]

wow, i think everything has been said already!

[archieboy]

Just one thing left to say, GET ONE ASAP!