Classic Rangie engine swap de jour?

[misteralz]

I want another classic Rangie. I had to get rid of mine last year, which hurt. It was a late hard dash TDi and I had so many great adventures in it. And when it worked - which was genuinely more often than not - it was utterly sublime. My circumstances here are very different to rural almost-Highland Scotland, though. Which means pre-1978, and petrol. But 3.5 V8s are cripplingly expensive to run - 12mpg would also mean filling up every two hours on a long run. So moon on a stick time - what can I drop in instead? Not diesel, will physically fit and mate up to either the gearbox or transfer box, and will give mid-20s mpg? Oh, and not costing millions would be nice, too! Initially I thought LS as they're given away free with 12 McNuggets in the US, but they're a good few grand here. Which is silly.

[ironmighty07]

Am seeing a few conversions running the Merc M113 V8 and there's conversion plates to mount these to the ZF HP autoboxes but not seen anything into the Discovery/RR(most conversions involve the M57 diesel)

[carat 3.6]

Grab yourself a mk1 Merc ML and swap everything over, including the gearbox. Cheap and reliable.

[misteralz]

They have to be the most unloved cars ever! But good shout. Will have to have a look underneath one with a tape measure. Was thinking the same about a Cayenne as well.

[MiataMark]

BMW 6cyl as used in South African Defenders?

[misteralz]

Think that might be too long? BMW M62 might work, though.

[dieselmax]

Was going to say, BMW 6 or ford ecoboost 2.2. There is also the discovery MPI, which had a 2 liter 4 cylinder.

Daan

[ChasR]

There some some good choices mentioned.

Is there a reason you don't want a Derv dropped in? If it's the emissions class switching, fair enough, as I can appreciate that can be trickier abroad to do. I'm aware diesel is significantly cheaper out there too (For us UK folks, it's around 20 cents cheaper a litre when I last went over to Germany).

I was going to say a BMW M57, which would do the above well, bar being a diesel. An M54 may do the job well, which would cover most of your bases, if the shoe would fit.

The ML is a good shout, regarding a swap. I'm almost tempted to say to drive either an ML or a Cayenne, and consider those as a replacement, unless you have to have an RRC .

[misteralz]

Yeah Chas, this might well be my forever car. I've had three diesel Rangies before - 300TDi, 2,5 P38, and whatever BMW lump was in the L322. Diesel is smelly, and increasingly banned in places I'd like to go to - I wouldn't be legally able to stop in at Classic Remise, for example. I've also never had a V8 before but I love their unstressed manner.
Looks like a W163 donor might be a goer - bulletproof 4.3 V8, decent box behind it with the transfer box output on the correct side, and it looks like there's a boy not far from me who specialises in building looms for them.
Why not a Cayenne? Because I miss my Classic.

[theoldman]

Aren't you in The Netherlands? Has LPG gone out of fashion there, or has it been taxed too high these days?

[carat 3.6]

Apr 19, 2024 18:15:44 GMT misteralz said:

They have to be the most unloved cars ever! But good shout. Will have to have a look underneath one with a tape measure. Was thinking the same about a Cayenne as well.

As a car they are one of the most horrible looking things ever made, but also one of the best kept secrets for a donor because they are a full chassis vehicle.

[misteralz]

Indeed I am - and LPG is becoming rarer everywhere these days. Whereas more efficient petrol engines and non-power-sapping autoboxes are becoming more and more common. Hence the asking - seems nowadays gutting a rotten MX5 is the answer to usability in your mk2 Escort/Marina/Chevette/MGB/whatever, so I was wondering if there was a 4x4 equivalent. Looks like there might just be in the W163!

[misteralz]

Just had a proper look at a W163. The transfer box has its outputs on opposite sides. Hmmm. Front axle flip and then diff flip?

Edit:

Or this: www.onlinegearboxparts.com/product/mercedes-ml500-722-6-to-lt230-adapter-kit/

M113 V8, MB 722.6 gearbox, LT230 transfer box. There's a boy selling an engine and box 22km from me right now. Christ, this could actually be a goer.

[stealthstylz]

I wouldn't run a M113 on LPG, done quite a few rebuilds of them on gas and it doesn't do well for them, same as most "modern" engine designs. On petrol they're solid engines though.

[kevins]

I do wonder wheather it's really worth it though, my 3.5 injected rv8 with a fairly new zf4hp (so lock up actually works) will do around 20mpg on a run (at the speed of the trucks), I can't see even a modern V8 doing more than mid 20's with the housebrick aerodynamics. A 3.9 on the later hotwire should be even better. Mine is also LPG and even only being able to get it occasionaly noticibly helps.

Fuel economy is pretty grim on short joirneys but I think a lot of that is losses in the transfer box and axles,(the engine warms up pretty quickly) might try some multigrade gear oil one day.

[misteralz]

If I could realistically get mid to late 20s out of a Rover V8 for sensible money, then that would maybe be a plan. My 300TDi did about that, but diesel is a total no-go. It's weird - I'm okay with dropping a couple of grand into an engine conversion to save me maybe 5mpg, but spending an extra few hundred on fuel on a run to Le Mans or Bavaria or wherever feels painful. I suspect a big part of it is also wanting to build something.
Anyway, have a pic of our old L322. It was ace. And I could get 30mpg out of it.

[squonk]

To get mid to late 20's out of any petrol engine in a classic RR is a big ask. The biggest hampering factor is its aerodynamics, or lack of. This car was designed without any consideration to cutting through the air with any form of efficiency. Hence any donor engine will have to work harder to shove it along than it would do in the vehicle it was intended to power. The second issue is the transfer box and permanant 4 wheel drive. All this saps power and makes the engine work harder. If you just swap an engine and retain the original transmission you are retaining the problem. Transplanting an engine, gearbox, transfer box and axles from a different car sounds difficult and costly for a result that is likely to dissapoint. I somehow doubt that any petrol engine would regularly achieve 20+ mpg when fitted to a large brick with wheels.

A modern build of a RV8 with a sequential injection system and coil packs would likely achieve as goood as you will get for a petrol powered Range Rover Classic at a reasonable cost. Stuart Armson of Armson AE was renowned for producing RV8's that were highly efficient. His own would regularly achieve 25+ mpg. Don't know if he still does the engine builds but it might be worth a phone call.

www.armsonae.co.uk/